did John Kerry just call soldiers stupid?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

derail
Um, also, if we want to talk about Freudian slips...
/derail

LOL- good catch.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

With all due respect, I find this idea to be ludicrous. You are asking me to believe that, in the middle of a speech that was an all out bush bash, he suddenly decided to switch gears and call the troops stupid, one week before perhaps one of th most important elections in our lifetime.

I can easily buy that Kerry screwed up the wording of a Bush joke. I cannot buy that someone that was a soldier would basically attack himself and his fellow servicemen, knowing the political backlash that would follow. Would someone who went through the swiftboat experience like he did, and who has presidential aspirations actually think it would go over well to insult the troops. It makes no sense, especially given the context of the rest of the speech. I'm just not buying it.

How can you not buy that when he maligned the troops before- accusing them of war atrocities that he never actually saw, and may not have even happened?

Just earlier this year, or late last- he accused them of terrorizing people in Iraq.

Kerry has a history of slamming the military- I agree with Leo- he may have flubbed the joke- but I suspect a freudian slip.

[Jughead P. Jones]

I think quite a few people are forgetting that there are several levels of intelligence. Sure, the soldiers might not have book smarts, but their levels of street smarts might be quite high...higher than that of even a Harvard grad.

Something to chew on, at least.

[Nephythys]

Gee Sac- guess there are alot of dumbfvcks since they keep meeting recruitment and retention quotas.

I begin to see why people don't have a problem with what he said- there is already a base disdain for the people who join the military- so why would it be a problem?

[LSPoorEeyorick]

My only disdain is for the president, for sending troops to die for a cause that seems to be the oil business. I have compassion for the troops; I'm sorry they found themselves in the position to have to go to war. I'm sorry that many of them felt like they didn't have any other choice. I'm sorry that some of them were pulled unwittingly into Vietnam: Now! With more Iraq!

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

My only disdain is for the president, for sending troops to die for a cause that seems to be the oil business. I have compassion for the troops; I'm sorry they found themselves in the position to have to go to war. I'm sorry that many of them felt like they didn't have any other choice. I'm sorry that some of them were pulled unwittingly into Vietnam: Now! With more Iraq!

Disclaimer- those who have disdain for the troops know I was referring to them.

(which did not- for the record- include you H )

I don't agree with your view- but I have never seen a disdain for the troops in anything you have posted.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I have compassion for the troops; I'm sorry they found themselves in the position to have to go to war. I'm sorry that many of them felt like they didn't have any other choice. I'm sorry that some of them were pulled unwittingly into Vietnam: Now! With more Iraq!

As human beings, I have compassion for soldiers as well, and I don't want to see them blown to bits.

Still .... we haven't been on the "good" side of a war in 60 years and, hmmm coincidence? - we haven't won one since then either. Plenty of time, even for people born only 20 years ago, to figure out the U.S. military is a malevolent force that, btw, loses every war it gets into. It's a VOLUNTEER army ... these young men and women CHOSE to become warriors at the disposal of a questionably-intended military juggernaut.

That they may have seen little other option is also true of most criminals.





That is not merely "disdain" for the troops; it is loathing and hatred.

Oh, and I feel that for all "troops" everywhere and all people who commit violence for whatever purpose other than personal, immediate self-defense.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

My only disdain is for the president, for sending troops to die for a cause that seems to be the oil business. I have compassion for the troops; I'm sorry they found themselves in the position to have to go to war. I'm sorry that many of them felt like they didn't have any other choice. I'm sorry that some of them were pulled unwittingly into Vietnam: Now! With more Iraq!

On the other hand . . .

When it suits their purposes, the powers that be are perfectly capable of arguing that enlistees are not a bunch of stoic Cincinnatuses (Cincinnati?), but, rather, culturally unaware mutants who are bred for killing. This from a history of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell":

"DoD officials and members of Congress contended that integration would lead to violence and harassment against gay and lesbian service members. For instance, Senator Sam Nunn (D-Ga.), chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, stated that he would "fear for the lives of people in the military themselves" if the ban were lifted too quickly. [206] Marine Corps Colonel Frederick Peck testified that a main reason he would not want his gay son to join the Marines was fear of violence: "I would be very fearful that his life would be in jeopardy from his own troops. . . . Fratricide is something that exists out there, and there are people who would put my son’s life at risk in our own armed forces." [207] One Army official testified, "There is a large percentage of individuals who have a propensity toward violence in that regard." [208] Likewise, a spokesperson for the National Guard asserted that the "sanctioned integration of homosexuals . . . will create explosive situations both in the work and living environments." [209]

I remember watching Colonel Peck's testimony on the news at the time. I found it rather chilling.

[Nephythys]

Case in point.

[Nephythys]

well- someone did some digging. Kerry's history of taking digs at servicemen and women....

Link

During a Vietnam-era run for Congress three decades ago, John Kerry said he opposed a volunteer Army because it would be dominated by the underprivileged, be less accountable and be more prone to "the perpetuation of war crimes."

In 1972, as he ran for the House, he was less apologetic in his comments about the merits of a volunteer army. He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema."

"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job.

Gee- he seems to share the same disdain for a volunteer army as some people here.