Obama

[Gemini Cricket]

But it wasn't just that Gates was yelling at Crowley and nothing else happened. There are other factors involved. If I were the police officer, I would be wondering why someone who has apparently done nothing wrong is acting out so much. Also, after showing the ID the cop should have left IF there was nothing more to the situation. But Gates kept going, yelling etc which is still disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct. I can't imagine a cop leaving a situation where the person he has interacted with is still yelling and screaming. That is an unresolved situation, imho.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

yelling etc which is still disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct

You said this before, but per Massachusetts law the behavior we all seem to agree happened is not disorderly conduct in the criminal sense (and thus the charges being dropped). Being obnoxious to a police officer is not criminal disorderly conduct. Refusing to provide identification when asked is not against the law. Refusing to come out of your own home when asked is not against the law. Calling police officers names is not against the law.

They're all very, very annoying for a police officer to have to deal with. But that also is not against the law.

Sure, Gates overreacting and being a douche (if he was -- they both claim the other one was overreacting and only one of those is obviously true) may raise suspicions that something else must be going on. But that also is not against the law and is not itself justification for an arrest.

Even in the most obnoxious version of Gates behavior nothing remotely illegal has been offered up to justify an arrest beyond "well, that's what happens when you annoy a cop."

[innerSpaceman]

How many times does Alex have to post what the legal definition of disorderly conduct is in Massachusetts?

He's the only one here who routinely researches things, so when he says what it is in Massachusetts, I believe he looked it up.


The guy wasn't charged with disturbing the peace. He was charged with disorderly conduct, a crime he was not guilty of, nor reasonably suspected of.



And not my business, but this no longer has anything whatsoever to do wtih Obama.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

He's the only one here who routinely researches things, so when he says what it is in Massachusetts, I believe he looked it up.

Here's a recap of the law on disorderly conduct in Massachusetts from conservative law blog The Volokh Conspiracy (pretty much everything I've found give the same analysis but I figured I'd link to a group most likely to bend towards the police).

Of note that it has been rejected by the state supreme court that simply being loud and verbally abusive is not sufficient on free speech grounds. And it has been ruled several times by the state supreme court that lacking threats of violence simply shouting at the police and calling them names is not disorderly conduct.

[Strangler Lewis]

Well, okay.

Obama should not have backed down.

Bush would not have backed down. He would have checked his gut, shot from the hip, stuck to his guns even when proven wrong (or wrongish), and his supporters would have admired him for it. Sadly, Obama briefly forgot that part of his mandate consists of being the least angry black man in America.

[Gemini Cricket]

No, I hear what everyone is saying. I just think that the cop did the right thing. He erred on the side of caution.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

No, I hear what everyone is saying. I just think that the cop did the right thing. He erred on the side of caution.

How is making an error the right thing?



And just what caution might you be referring to?




And yes, scaeagles, handcuffs are always a welcome assistance to an elderly black man.



You guys are really, really stretching.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

How is making an error the right thing?



And just what caution might you be referring to?




And yes, scaeagles, handcuffs are always a welcome assistance to an elderly black man.

He said that he felt Gates was acting strangely. He still had a lot of suspicions about Gates and the way he was acting so he hauled him in. Cops always go into situations thinking of the worst case scenario that could or has happened. That's a good thing, imho. What if they arrested him and then found out it wasn't his house after all? I mean, we can 'what if' til we all turn blue (LoT is pretty blue in color already) but the possibility that something else might be going on was there.

I would have made the same error. In the same situation, I would have done the same thing.

Handcuffs are used for everybody. The handcuffs were not excessive.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Handcuffs are used for everybody. The handcuffs were not excessive.

Yes, GC, I use handcuffs on my grandchildren. Everyone loves them.


Whenever they sass me, on go the cuffs.


Gotta do it, they might hurt themselves or others.




What are you on about, really? Can you just say you're unbelievably biased and leave it at that?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

What are you on about, really? Can you just say you're unbelievably biased and leave it at that?

Because I don't see it that way. I'm not going to side with the police on every single situation. At this time, I agree with this policeman.