Uh...What do you say to this?

[3894]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

But I suspect you're going anthropological with this one, which also makes me curious as your comment to me suggests there are cultures where concepts of beauty and desire are not intertwined, or that cultures exist that where there is no objectification and my existentialist self doubts that to be the case.

This activity comes from Middle Eastern/Eastern Mediterranean cultures (esp. Turkey and Syria) and not from Greece. It's culturally inauthentic for a Greek restaurant to hire a belly dancer to go around from one table to another. So our discussion is not about the validity of Greek culture. It's about what this particular restaurant chooses to do to attract customers. This particular restaurant decided that a belly dancer going around to tables would probably increase their business.

We have an inauthetic quasi-Mediterranean practice that reminds Americans of something in their own culture, namely a striptease act where commodification of the body is clearly going on.

Are there cultures where the concept of beauty and desire are not intertwined? Probably not. That's not the question. If attractiveness brings about physical desire, that's one thing. Paying to see the commodification of the body is something else.

[3894]

Please add this to the above ...

Striptease joints are clearly delineated from other kinds of venues. It's too bad that this restaurant decided to combine this two somehow, even though children are being served.

I would have more patience for the bellydancing in the Greek restaurant if the woman had not gone from table to table encouraging tips put in her clothing.

[Alex]

I've never been at a place with bellydancing where you tipped the dancer directly by putting money into her clothing.

Now, I haven't been many places with bellydancing (live performance annoys me while I'm tryingn to have a nice meal since it makes socializing with my tablemates difficult) but this would have surprised me. Is it common?

That said, the appropriate reponse to his question would have been:

"Ask her, if she is fine with it then it is ok since the important thing is that all parties consent. Though if you end up with a disease the cost of the medicine is coming out of your future allowances."

Finally, I don't see what's wrong with objectifying people. It is the only way we can incorporate into our awareness people and things of whom we have no intimate (platonic, of course) personal knowledge. Sexual objectification is just a subsection of that. Of course, acting on objectification is where you run into issues.

It is very much a primal instinct, I'd say. And we do it to hundreds of people in hundreds of ways every day, male (see the Annie Leibowitz thread) or female.

[RStar]

I think the problem is when a society says it is ok to objectifying people, you are lowering their worth as a whole to some people. While that may be the exception for most people, it also says something about our society, don't you think?

The problems arise when people take strict classification of the objectiveness to the extreme. This is more dangerous in my mind with sexuallity, as it often envoles your own body along with someone elses, making it even more personal. This is mostly a problem when it envoles addictions. But this holds true with all addictions, and their inherant objectiveness. I took Oxycodine for my neck nerve pain before my surgery. I classifyed it as a needed medication. Some would call it a high and reclassify it. So, should it be sold legally in bars? No, because it may have an unhealthy response in our society.

If I'm not making much sinse, I opoligize, as I currently have a cold and I'm taking cold medicine.

[RStar]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Damnit it €

BTW, how do you make that "C"? I've been wondering that....

Also, Tracy, I hope this thread has helped, as it seems to have wondered into a slightly, though interesting, area.

[RStar]

Dang! I don't know why it won't let me edit sometimes. It just sits there with the circle going 'round after I hit enter like it's thinking about it but never does it!

I men't the "E", not C though it looks like a C with two lines in it....

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by RStar

Dang! I don't know why it won't let me edit sometimes. It just sits there with the circle going 'round after I hit enter like it's thinking about it but never does it!

I have had that same problem a few times. It is frustrating.

[Alex]

Yes, it is the same problem that happens with Quick Reply (there is a thread about it somewhere).

If it does hang, just click the Go Advanced button, remake your change and submit. That page (like the Advanced Post page) does not use Ajax and doesn't seem to have the same problem.

[Prudence]

I wish not every restaurant belly dancer went the cabaret route for costuming. I have nothing more interesting to contribute to this discussion.

[CoasterMatt]

Originally Posted by Prudence

I wish not every restaurant belly dancer went the cabaret route for costuming.

I've never seen a belly dancer dressed like Joel Grey.