Thoughts are now being censored

[MouseWife]

Counseling over punishment.

He is obviously confused and needs help. Not that he is 'messed up', just confused with all that is going on.

I think back to when I was a little girl, we were fed a lot of things. I remember hearing some sort of alarm {I know my husband remembers what they are called as we've discussed this before} that would go off daily. I think in case of attack? Something
military.

Cancers, other illnesses, wars, drive bys, school shootings....it is pretty heavy stuff for kids. I think he was getting it out somehow.

And, 18 isn't an adult. {not that anyone questioned that}

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Well, yeah, but I was choosing between what they did and what they could have done.

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

Originally Posted by MouseWife

He is obviously confused and needs help. Not that he is 'messed up', just confused with all that is going on.

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

I'm with Alex on this one.

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Group talks can work out problems. That is why talk shows are popular.

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

But that isn't what was decided, we are not talking about what should or could have been done. But what they decided to do after the fact.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

To quote scaegles "I wonder if anyone thinks the kid to be disturbed, or if they just don't want to be held accountable should he shoot someone and the media begins probing them as the why they didn't reach out to the obvious cries for help as denoted in his writings. It's a CYA."

Sounds to me why this teacher did what she did.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I'm with Alex on this one.

I am actually not against him. As a parent, if my child were facing these issues {which he is, we can't go back and give him that 'A'} I would rather he have counseling than go to jail. Ultimate 'rather', being of course, to drop the matter completely. Perhaps the 'counseling' would do that? But, I haven't heard that being an offer, to drop the whole thing?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

LOL Around here? You're kidding, right?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

You can point that out but I didn't say anything about believing people on t.v. And, I'm not kidding. I know that certain subjects on certain talk shows can really help. You are not considering the masses of people who don't have groups to talk with. People to talk to.

Everyone doesn't have a group of friends to debate with, laugh with, or to bounce jokes/ideas like that off of. That is reality.

If his parents can fight any of it, I would. But, if they only have two choices, well, you know mine.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

I still develop a suicide plan almost daily. Just something I think about in quiet movies; not at all suicidal, just curious how I would do it.

"Today...how would I do it so that Lani is caused minimal anxiety..."

"Today...how would I do it so that makes the news..."


Anyway, if I were the kid and given the choice between facing these charges and going into counseling (and I don't feel I need counseling, it may well be the case that this kid has exhibited a suite of problems that aren't mentioned in the article), then I'd face the charges. There's (should be) no way they'd get a conviction and if they get you into counseling against your will they've won.

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't know what Illinois's disorderly conduct statute says, but in California it's fairly clear that actual threats of violence to a targeted person or his family are criminal. On the other hand, the statute "is not violated by mere angry utterances or ranting soliloquies, however violent. One may, in private, curse one's enemies, pummel pillows, and shout revenge for real or imagined wrongs--safe from section 422 sanction.”

If the question is could an assignment be deemed the opportunity for a student to make an actual criminal threat, the answer would have to be yes, although that would be a jury question. There's a California case where a student in art class painted a picture of himself shooting his teacher (not his art teacher) in the head. Of course, he was convicted, but the court of appeal reversed because there was no evidence that the student anticipated showing the painting to the teacher in question or that he knew that the teacher would see the painting.

I don't think what the kid wrote can be interpreted as an actual threat. Even if it could, then you'd get into interesting issues of entrapment if school teachers are now effectively agents of law enforcement for purpose of ferreting out antisocial thoughts.

Life is a law school hypo.

[Alex]

I'm not clear on why he needs counseling.

[Kevy Baby]

Why not just a basic caning?

Corporal punishment is a good thing.

[Alex]

I'm still not sure why he needs counseling?

Thousands of kids write things like that every day. I wrote things much worse than that. I think I've said before that a group of us had actual detailed plans for poisoning the French teacher.

All the article mentions is what he wrote and there is nothing in that to indicate a need for counseling. The teacher should have said "really, do you think you can offend me so easily" and then just kept an eye out for any real signs of problems.

But based just on the that information available in that article I see nothing that warrants any action, be it psychological, criminal, or bureaucratic.

[MouseWife]

Well, yeah, but I was choosing between what they did and what they could have done.

But, I still don't think it would do harm to talk to the kid. Could be nothing, could be something.

Maybe he doesn't have anyone to talk to? Unlike yourself.

LOL Kevy Baby, I had to look twice...I thought you said to 'can' him....

[Alex]

"Unlike myself"?

The single most destructive thing my high school ever did to me was try and force me into counseling (because the didn't like a decision I'd made, they decided I must be on drugs).

Writing bad things is not a sign (all on its own) of problems. And if ever there is a group of people who act on the philosophy of "if you're going to treat me like I did something wrong, I might as well do something wrong" it is teenagers.