Michael Moore's "Sicko"

[wendybeth]

Uhm , Jughead- the average wait in pretty much any urban ER is at least as long as you described. Then, even if you have insurance, you usually wind up with a fairly substantial bill. (Insurance ER co-pays tend to be high).

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

In most of the countries that offer socialized medicine many citizens have now gone to private insurance to supplement the coverage the government offers so they can get those needed procedures quicker and in some cases in other countries.

If we are to go to socialized health care are you prepared to pay the costs?
Your income tax rate would be about 50% even at the lower tax brackets, your property tax would double, you would pay 18% for every good or service you purchase and how about $5.00, $6.00 or $7.00 per gallon for gasoline with 70% of that being tax? Are you willing to pay these costs and let a government run another program? We have seen how they have done during natural disasters, with our road system, avaition system and many other functions.

And what part do we ourselves play in the cost of healthcare? Americans are fatter now than ever before, we put in more hours at work than any other industrialized nation, we stress about our employment, family life, government issues, etc. Look at the proliferation of quick serve meals and fast food restuarants.

We will wash our car weekly, change the oil regularly and perform maintenance on it as it is our very means (especially in SoCal) of going about our daily routine. Yet when it comes to our health, we wait until something dramatic happens, before we seek help. When was the last time you had a regular check up?

[Alex]

I didn't even go to a doctor when I literally cooked my eyeballs and the last time I did go to a doctor (2003) it was because I was in so much pain I literally couldn't walk upright (kidney stone).

If all goes well the next time I see a doctor it will be so he can tell me I have only a few seconds to live so he has to talk fast.

[Alex]

Just got this press release which I thought some here might find of interest.



NEW YORK, NEW YORK (June 24, 2007) - The trailer for “SiCKO,” Michael Moore’s expose of the American health care system, will be projected with full sound and subtitles on the outside of buildings near the headquarters of leading HMOs, insurance companies and hospitals in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and Oakland on Monday, June 25th beginning at sundown through 1:00am.

This innovative campaign will enable millions of Americans including employees at leading HMOs, insurance companies and hospitals to see a sneak peak of Michael Moore’s acclaimed documentary that explores and examines their industry’s role in our nation’s troubled health care system.

SiCKO is written, directed and produced by Michael Moore. The film is produced by Meghan O'Hara and co-produced by Anne Moore. Kathleen Glynn, Bob Weinstein and Harvey Weinstein serve as executive producers.

SiCKO opened exclusively at the AMC- Loews Lincoln Square Theater, Friday, June 22nd and is opening nationwide on Friday, June 29th.

The trailer will be simultaneously projected at the following locations from sundown to 1am.

Bay Area Locations:

SAN FRANCISCO
Projection Site: Intersection of Broadway & Montgomery St.
Locations of interest nearby:
E-surance
Kaiser Permanente
Sutter Health
Saint Francis Memorial Hospital
Chinese Hospital
Ocadian Hospitals & Care Centers

OAKLAND
Projection Site: 1950 Franklin St.
Locations of interest nearby:
Kaiser Permanente
Kaiser Permanente
Kaiser Center
Kaiser Foundation Hospital

Additional Locations:

LOS ANGELES
Projection Site: 4343 W. Sunset Blvd.
Locations of interest nearby:
Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Hollywood Community Hospital
Health Net
Guardian Rehabilitation Hospital
Childrens Hospital Los Angeles
Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center

NEW YORK
Projection Site: Times Square, 625 8th Ave. & 40th St.
Locations of interest nearby:
Benefits Quest, Inc.
Empire BlueCross BlueShield
Group Health Inc.
The Guardian
Metropolitan Life Insurance Co.
Health Insurance Plan of Greater New York Mutual Life Insurance Co. of New York St. Clare’s Family Health Center St. Vincent’s Midtown Roosevelt Hospital Beth Israel Hospital NYU Medical Center NY Presbyterian Hospital National Jewish

CHICAGO
Projection Site: 525 N. Michigan Ave.
Locations of interest nearby:
Blue Cross/Blue Shield
Wells Fargo
Northwestern Memorial Hospital

[cirquelover]

Originally Posted by Alex

I didn't even go to a doctor when I literally cooked my eyeballs and the last time I did go to a doctor (2003) it was because I was in so much pain I literally couldn't walk upright (kidney stone).

If all goes well the next time I see a doctor it will be so he can tell me I have only a few seconds to live so he has to talk fast.

OT- Alex this post is a perfect example of how first you make me shake my head, then you make me laugh out loud! Visible mojo for you my friend.

Anyway, my aunt was/is Canadian and I know she had to wait many months for surgery to remove cancer and the chemo that followed. It was also more than once. They finally moved to the US for better health care and schools.

If you ask me Australia's health care system seemed just as bad. They appeared to be 20 years behind in medical technology. My mom had some horror stories from the 12 years she lived there.

I don't know what the answer is but we need to figure something out. Between the cost of drugs, Dr bills, let alone hospital costs it is outrageous and can sink a family very quickly.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Nesbitt

If we are to go to socialized health care are you prepared to pay the costs?

The opinions provided are interesting. However, they are mostly worthless (beyond basic opinion) without some facts/links/etc. to back it up.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to see something that corroborates this info. Do you have anything? I agree with the basic premise but find much of this hard to swallow.

[Alex]

Thank you Ponine. At the time I posted I was unaware of the screenings (should have looked first, though) and thought the only way to see the movie was by downloading it from any of the many online sources (it was at YouTube in 10 minute chunks and Google Video for a while even).

So my apologies to mousepod for making that assumption.

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

The opinions provided are interesting. However, they are mostly worthless (beyond basic opinion) without some facts/links/etc. to back it up.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to see something that corroborates this info. Do you have anything? I agree with the basic premise but find much of this hard to swallow.

Sorry my I assumed most here had a basic understanding of world politics and high school history.

Across Europe VAT tax, (sales tax) is anywhere from 18 to 22%. The European Union has set rates for VAT while some Scandanavian and other countries charge more.

The top tax rates for Spain is 45%, for France is it 48% and Germany 45%. This generally starts at top incomes anywhere from $37,000 to $50,000 per year. (Do Google search, there are many entries for this)

Gas Prices

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

Drivers in some European cities, like Amsterdam and Oslo, are paying nearly 3 times more than those in the U.S.The main factor in price disparities between countries is government policy, according to AirInc, a company that tracks the cost of living in various places around the world. Many European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline, said a spokesperson for AirInc.

Tax rates for income in Canada:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individ...axrates-e.html

Now add in the GST and the tax most provinces charge and now you are at 11 to 15% sales tax.

I also have Canadian relatives, one that works in healthcare.

It is fairly common knowledge the U.S. has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Government programs have to be paid somehow, and generally that is through taxes. Since we already have a large number of government programs operating in the red, to add socialized medicine would require adding to the tax base to generate the revenues to pay for this.

See economics 101.

As for the health statistics, look at the rates of heart disease, cancer, hypertension, etc. The U.S. has some of the highest rates of these diseases of any industralized nation.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both women and men in the United States.

In 2006, heart disease is projected to cost more than $258 billion, including health care services, medications, and lost productivity.

Since this disease can be linked to lifestyle, mainly fatty foods, trans fats, (which everyone is trying to eliminate) I would be safe to say our lifestyle contributes to our poor health. Our emergency rooms are often filled, (and not just with illegals) but with others who only see their doctor when there is a problem, not as a preventive measure. Want stats, ask a group of ten that you know when was the last time they went for a regular checkup and how many do it on an annual basis, especially if they have risk factors such as family history. I would assume the number will be fairly low.

As for the opinion being worthless, that could be said just about anything posted here. I never quoted it as fact, but as opinion used to stimulate discussion. For further corroborating evidence, you are welcome to do a Google search. I don't post often, but generally when I do, it is because I have enough knowledge to state an informed opinion. Since I use multiple sources, from newspapers, the Internet, books, reports, news and other sources I did not know I needed to post all that info also. Being new to the way Internet forums work, I will make sure to do a more thorough job next time.

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Nesbitt

In most of the countries that offer socialized medicine many citizens have now gone to private insurance to supplement the coverage the government offers so they can get those needed procedures quicker and in some cases in other countries.

Table 1. The role of private health insurance in western European health systems

Role Coverage Examples
Substitutive for people excluded from or allowed to opt out of statutory health insurance excluded: families with annual incomes over €30 700 in the Netherlands allowed to opt out: families with annual earnings over €45 900 in Germany

Complementary services excluded or only partially covered by the state such as dental care or user charges excluded services: France, Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain, the United Kingdom cost sharing: Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden

Supplementary increased choice of provider and faster access all countries; the main role of private health insurance in Finland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom


http://www.euro.who.int/HEN/Synthese...ing/20040630_3

[wendybeth]

There are some who would argue that our standard of care is the culprit, Mrs. Nesbitt, not our standard of living. I know a lot of people who don't go to the doctor for well-checks because they cannot afford it. I know a lot of people who live very healthy lifestyles, and yet they still get sick. My best friend died at 37 of lung cancer, and she did not smoke. She also did not have insurance, so she waited until she had not choice before she went to the doctor. She couldn't even afford the visit where she was told she would probably die.

I think I will wait to post anymore until I've actually seen the movie.