Michael Moore's "Sicko"

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

The opinions provided are interesting. However, they are mostly worthless (beyond basic opinion) without some facts/links/etc. to back it up.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to see something that corroborates this info. Do you have anything? I agree with the basic premise but find much of this hard to swallow.

Sorry my I assumed most here had a basic understanding of world politics and high school history.

Across Europe VAT tax, (sales tax) is anywhere from 18 to 22%. The European Union has set rates for VAT while some Scandanavian and other countries charge more.

The top tax rates for Spain is 45%, for France is it 48% and Germany 45%. This generally starts at top incomes anywhere from $37,000 to $50,000 per year. (Do Google search, there are many entries for this)

Gas Prices

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

Drivers in some European cities, like Amsterdam and Oslo, are paying nearly 3 times more than those in the U.S.The main factor in price disparities between countries is government policy, according to AirInc, a company that tracks the cost of living in various places around the world. Many European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline, said a spokesperson for AirInc.

Tax rates for income in Canada:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individ...axrates-e.html

Now add in the GST and the tax most provinces charge and now you are at 11 to 15% sales tax.

I also have Canadian relatives, one that works in healthcare.

It is fairly common knowledge the U.S. has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Government programs have to be paid somehow, and generally that is through taxes. Since we already have a large number of government programs operating in the red, to add socialized medicine would require adding to the tax base to generate the revenues to pay for this.

See economics 101.

As for the health statistics, look at the rates of heart disease, cancer, hypertension, etc. The U.S. has some of the highest rates of these diseases of any industralized nation.

Heart disease is the leading cause of death for both women and men in the United States.

In 2006, heart disease is projected to cost more than $258 billion, including health care services, medications, and lost productivity.

Since this disease can be linked to lifestyle, mainly fatty foods, trans fats, (which everyone is trying to eliminate) I would be safe to say our lifestyle contributes to our poor health. Our emergency rooms are often filled, (and not just with illegals) but with others who only see their doctor when there is a problem, not as a preventive measure. Want stats, ask a group of ten that you know when was the last time they went for a regular checkup and how many do it on an annual basis, especially if they have risk factors such as family history. I would assume the number will be fairly low.

As for the opinion being worthless, that could be said just about anything posted here. I never quoted it as fact, but as opinion used to stimulate discussion. For further corroborating evidence, you are welcome to do a Google search. I don't post often, but generally when I do, it is because I have enough knowledge to state an informed opinion. Since I use multiple sources, from newspapers, the Internet, books, reports, news and other sources I did not know I needed to post all that info also. Being new to the way Internet forums work, I will make sure to do a more thorough job next time.

[Mrs. Nesbitt]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Nesbitt

In most of the countries that offer socialized medicine many citizens have now gone to private insurance to supplement the coverage the government offers so they can get those needed procedures quicker and in some cases in other countries.

Table 1. The role of private health insurance in western European health systems

Role Coverage Examples
Substitutive for people excluded from or allowed to opt out of statutory health insurance excluded: families with annual incomes over €30 700 in the Netherlands allowed to opt out: families with annual earnings over €45 900 in Germany

Complementary services excluded or only partially covered by the state such as dental care or user charges excluded services: France, Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain, the United Kingdom cost sharing: Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden

Supplementary increased choice of provider and faster access all countries; the main role of private health insurance in Finland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom


http://www.euro.who.int/HEN/Synthese...ing/20040630_3

[wendybeth]

There are some who would argue that our standard of care is the culprit, Mrs. Nesbitt, not our standard of living. I know a lot of people who don't go to the doctor for well-checks because they cannot afford it. I know a lot of people who live very healthy lifestyles, and yet they still get sick. My best friend died at 37 of lung cancer, and she did not smoke. She also did not have insurance, so she waited until she had not choice before she went to the doctor. She couldn't even afford the visit where she was told she would probably die.

I think I will wait to post anymore until I've actually seen the movie.