Words simply fail me-

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Users use whether it is legal or not, and I doubt any significant increase in users will be evident if legalized. Therefore, supply and demand doesn't work as you are thinking it will.

I would have to completely disagree with you. In my experience, there are plenty of people that do not do drugs very often simply because it is harder to get than booze. I used to be heavily involved in that kind of thing. With heroin you're talking about hardcore addiction - yes, they'll get it anyway they can. But with more recreational, less addictive drugs, you'll get people who simply use when it's around. I feel the same way about alcohol - if it were completely unavailable tomorrow, I wouldn't go to the black market to get it, but as it is, I'll pick up a six pack at the supermarket.

[Sheila]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I would have to completely disagree with you. In my experience, there are plenty of people that do not do drugs very often simply because it is harder to get than booze. I used to be heavily involved in that kind of thing. With heroin you're talking about hardcore addiction - yes, they'll get it anyway they can. But with more recreational, less addictive drugs, you'll get people who simply use when it's around. I feel the same way about alcohol - if it were completely unavailable tomorrow, I wouldn't go to the black market to get it, but as it is, I'll pick up a six pack at the supermarket.

Although I probably would react the same way as you, CP (although my last experience with illegal substances was when I was 20), I think this argument is not true for many people.

If you look at the countries where heroin and other drugs have been legalized, those countries have a huge problem with the vast numbers of people who become addicted and are no longer contributing members of society. Just the stories coming out of the Netherlands are scary.

So although in principle I agree with legalizing drugs, I'm not sure that it's the right thing to do either.

[Name]

as long as the net revenues are greater then the costs to produce, there will always be a profit in production.

[Not Afraid]

Alcohol has been legal for a while now and there are nore alcoholics than ever before with numbers growing daily. Alcohol-related death is the #1 cause of death (combining all health matters caused by alcoholism).

Personally, I think heroin would be my drug of choice were it legalized. It give they type of "high" that I prefer.

And, there are no "less addictive" substances except maybe pot - and that's another discussion.

[Claire]

I don't know about elsewhere, but in Oregon, meth is a HUGE ass problem. Every crime everywhere in the state is blamed on meth addiction. Prostituting children, stealing the metal from bridges to sell, stealing cold medicine (which is now pretty much under lock and key now in Portland), neighborhoods going to hell because there's a meth lab on every street corner, you name it, it's all being done.....because of addiction to meth.

I'm not sure what can be done about it. It doesn't seem like legalizing it and manufacturing meth in a "safe lab" is the solution.

I don't think it's any different with heroin. It's just too dangerous....the high, the addiction, the associated health risks.

Legalizing pot on the other hand....my position has wavered over the years. Currently, I'm leaning toward a controlled legalization of it. But who would control it and how? I have no freaking clue!!

I'm not completely averse to the program they have in Canada....I like where they want to go with it, but it's hard to stomach the concept here in the tax-paying States.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Claire

I don't know about elsewhere, but in Oregon, meth is a HUGE ass problem. Every crime everywhere in the state is blamed on meth addiction. Prostituting children, stealing the metal from bridges to sell, stealing cold medicine (which is now pretty much under lock and key now in Portland), neighborhoods going to hell because there's a meth lab on every street corner, you name it, it's all being done.....because of addiction to meth.

But on the plus side, you have the highest number of strip clubs per capita of any city in the US!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

And, there are no "less addictive" substances except maybe pot - and that's another discussion.

Your husband brought up the least addictive of the lot - hallucinagens. Shrooms and LSD are far less addictive than pot, which is far less addictive than coke or heroin. Yes, one can be addicted to any drug the same way you can be a sex addict or a gambling addict (and these are serious addictions that destroy lives) but there is a difference between that and chemical addiction.

That clock is so horrifying. All that money that could build schools....down the drain. The war on drugs isn't even working, how can they continue it?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Your husband brought up the least addictive of the lot - hallucinagens. Shrooms and LSD are far less addictive than pot, which is far less addictive than coke or heroin.

With hallucinagens, and even with pot, I would say that it isn't the substance that is addicting, but rather the experience. If you don't have a good experience, you aren't going to continue using. If you do have a pleasurable experience, you may continue but not because there is a chemical compelling you to.

I've known plenty of people that tried pot, didn't like it, and didn't do it anymore. There is no physical withdrawal to stopping. Cigarettes, however... Or alcohol, heroin, etc. I know people that knew they were killing themselves with alcohol, but just couldn't stop. They weren't enjoying themselves any more and yet they continued.

I know I'm just restating what others have said more elequently but it is an important difference in the types of addiction and worth repeating, IMO.

[Not Afraid]

Why is Pot different? You can't drive after smoking it? The same legal laws would apply. Maybe it's addicting, maybe not (medical opinion differs) but alcohol is addicting and logal. I just can't "get" it.

Of course, I'm one who says either make alcohol illegal or legalize the lot of it.

[Claire]

I guess my beef is with the physical toll that heroin and meth take on the body versus something like pot.

Kelly's uncle is......as I type.....wasting away to nothing and dying due to the effects of alcohol on his various systems. His liver is shot, as are several other vital organs and he's just waiting to die.....nothing can be done. So I have seen the mess that alcohol can do a body (and a family--he's got three grown children that he basically ditched 20 years ago, because alcohol was more important). But it's such an extreme case.

I have nowhere special I'm going with this rambling post....my thoughts on all of it have shifted over the last several years, so I don't have a firm stance anymore.