Smoking in France a thing of the past?

[Pirate Bill]

Originally Posted by 3894

As for cigarettes somehow being central to French culture, it is to laugh.

Just an aside and not picking nits, I couldn't help but laugh at seeing this avatar next to this quote. I can't tell exactly what she's holding in the picture but it looks to me like one of those long cigarette holders. (Or is she chewing a piece of straw? - Which would, arguably, make the picture all the more sexy.)

Originally Posted by mousepod

So I'm conflicted, ambivalent, and but ultimately secretly happy with the current state of no-smoking laws.

Thank you for exactly summing up my feelings on the issue so well.

I'm a non-smoker. Have been all my life. I can't stand the smell of smoke. It doesn't affect me physically other than make me gag a little. But I'd rather breath in someone's fart than smell a cigarette. At least the fart smell won't permeate my clothes and hair and make me reek all day. But I do hate the idea of taking away people's freedoms to do stupid things. I do stupid things that I know I shouldn't do and are bad for me, but never would I want a ban on them. Does my stupidity affect others? Not nearly as much as smoking does, but I also fear the slippery slope as other's have mentioned.

It's funny. Having visited Disneyland many times before smoking bans or designated smoking areas, I would smell certain tobacco scents on occasion and actually like it. I now associate some tobacco smells to Disneyland. Even years and years later. Is tobacco central to a visit to Disneyland? No, but somehow I have created an association that is actually a fond memory.

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

What you say makes sense, and like I said, i realize I'm on the losing side of this argument. But this last line scares me.

I concur. While I completely agree with CP's statement, I hardly find it governments responsibility to protect the stupid by penalizing personal choice. People are stupid, let them choose their own demise. I know a lot of bikers that prefer to ride without a helmet. I think they are idiots, but shouldn't it be their choice (so long as our dollars are not paying for their healthcare).

Now, this clearly crosses into a gray area when your personal choice impacts the health and comfort of others. That is where I begin to have a moral dilemma. Government = bad. However, I do enjoy the benefits of coming home from a bar smoke free. It is odd now to go back to places where they do not have these laws. However, in principal I am still opposed. It is simply because I enjoy the side benefit that I do not complain too much about the government imposition in our lives.

I suppose the argument could be made regarding the choice of venue. Whereas an airplane or restaurant is something that people should be free to use and enjoy without putting their health at risk, isn't a bar a place of vice anyway? People are hardly going their out of need, hunger or to live a more healthy lifestyle.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

It is simply because I enjoy the side benefit that I do not complain too much about the government imposition in our lives.

Yes, and that is a valid reason to support it. In fact, that's the only reason we should support governmental impositions on freedom, because the specific imposition benefits us.

[Kevy Baby]

I am an ardent non-smoker. I believe we have gone too far with smoking laws. I have no scientific data to back this up. It is just a thought I have.

[scaeagles]

Just read a study about traffic delays caused by people using cell phones while they drive. I think studies have also shown that cell phones increase the risk of brain tumors. It is also rude when people carry on loud conversations on them in public.

Not rhetorical, I'm wondering....the world got by fine pre cell phone. They are a convenience. So should we ban them in cars and public places? Not only are they an annoyance, and have adverse effects on others (traffic, noise, etc), but there are health risks apparently involved. Is this not the same as the smoking debate?

I can honestly see the same thing happening to cell phones that has happened to cigarettes. There will be health warning labels regarding increased tumor risk. Then they will be banned in cars. Then in public places. I don't see that as a stretch.

Many people don't care when something they hate and is an annoyance to them is restricted by the government in ways they think are fine. Then the government applies the same logic to something the person in question uses and that same individual is outraged.

[innerSpaceman]

You don't see that as a stretch, huh?


Um, wow.



But any way you cut it .... cell phones, if a health risk, are one to the person who chooses to use them. Frankly, seat belts and helmets are dangerous in the same individual choice way.


Cigarettes are not.


The analogy that a McDonalds diet poses a health risk to others because of, what?, public health care funds taken from a cancer patient to pay for a triple bypass? Um, that's even more of a stretch than the cell phone ban.


Nope, of all the personal vices and habits ... I think smoking is unique in the way it excretes its chemical danger into the atmosphere surrounding the choice-making user.

Hmmm, perhaps driving itself comes under this category, too. Maybe a ban on driving in public places is in store for us all.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

The analogy that a McDonalds diet poses a health risk to others because of, what?, public health care funds taken from a cancer patient to pay for a triple bypass? Um, that's even more of a stretch than the cell phone ban.

That's pretty much the rational that was used to pass the helmet and seat belt laws we already have in place across this country. So why would you see that as a stretch?

[Alex]

The studies have no shown an increased risk of brain tumors with cell phone use. In fact it is pretty much the opposite. Of course, the significant health risks of second hand smoke aren't really established either.

[scaeagles]

Older study, but there have certainly been linkages made between cell phone usage and brain cancer.

Perhaps more studies will show that people in the immediate vacinity of those using cell phones are at risk as well. And there are issues with bee colonies and cell phones, which could lead to world wide crop problems.

I don't see my paranoia at government intrusion into my life and the lives of everyone as anything of a stretch. It's what government does. If we have universal health care imposed upon us, I would bet heavily that fatty and sugary foods will be taxed virtually out of existance and you will pay less for services if you prove you have a 5 day/week exercise regimin.

I find it difficult to believe that those who think the government wants to listen to their everyday conversations (rather than software combing for certain key words and phrases) and find that to be an intrusive thing aren't worried about more and more intrusion into their daily lives.

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

If we have universal health care imposed upon us, I would bet heavily that fatty and sugary foods will be taxed virtually out of existance and you will pay less for services if you prove you have a 5 day/week exercise regimin.

Fearmongering

With so many of our industrialized nations offering universal health care, the world should be rife with examples you could cite.

Please do.