Discussion of California Ballot Initiatives - Page 2

Not Afraid · 01-30-2008, 09:02 PM

I actually have quite a problem with Indian Gaming. I tend to vote exactly opposite of the way the casinos want me to.

innerSpaceman · 01-30-2008, 09:18 PM

Ah, but which casinos? Las Vegas casinos want you to vote one way, Indian casinos another.

Arghghh.

Not Afraid · 01-30-2008, 09:21 PM

Well, I live in California. I don't care what Vegas wants.

innerSpaceman · 01-30-2008, 09:24 PM

This may be awfully racist and stupid of me, but I think it's high time we stopped treating native americans as some sort of separate nation. Um, yeah, it's been 300 years. I know they are oppressed, but they are not a nation unto themselves and they should not have separate laws and a separate, illegal economy (which "in" tribes use to oppress the other tribes).

Bah.

Alex · 01-30-2008, 09:36 PM

I'll be interested to see if Helen has a response to that and what it is.

Alex · 01-30-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

I'll be interested to see if Helen has a response to that and what it is.

Just realized that sounds kind of like a "fight, fight, fight" taunt. Didn't mean it to, just honestly curious to see her respond since she's much more educated on the issue than me. Though my own opinion is one of disagreement (and would go the other way and stop infantilizing them by placing all kinds of hoops and restrictions on their own use of their own land).

3894 · 02-03-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

This may be awfully racist and stupid of me, but I think it's high time we stopped treating native americans as some sort of separate nation. Um, yeah, it's been 300 years. I know they are oppressed, but they are not a nation unto themselves and they should not have separate laws and a separate, illegal economy (which "in" tribes use to oppress the other tribes).

Bah.

You're confusing the idea of nation with the modern nation-state with boundaries and distinctive laws, etc. The term "nation" can be applied to tribes who have an historic sense of where they lived, who they were linguistically and culturally. When you understand that the term "nation" is a broader definition than the modern nation-state, I think you'll agree that Indian "tribes" can also be called "nations" and were recognized as such by the U.S. government when treaties were made defining their territory and rights.

Yes, it's been 300 years but most of those "nations" still have a sense of who they are, where they came from, etc. Some of them were never recognized by the U.S., especially in the East, because their contact with Europeans predated the United States. As a result, there are a number of tribal "nations" in the East that have only been recognized by states and may never gain national recognition. This is unfortunate because their status in the eyes of the U.S. government is not as high as the Western tribes where treaties were made.

CoasterMatt · 01-30-2008, 10:23 PM

Why the hell did this thread just put the song "Two Tribes" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood into my head?

Kevy Baby · 01-30-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

Why the hell did this thread just put the song "Two Tribes" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood into my head?

Because you were dreaming of gay men?

€uroMeinke · 01-30-2008, 11:42 PM

I just found the Indians on the vote No ads less attractive than the vote Yes Indians

01-30-2008, 09:02 PM	#1
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	I actually have quite a problem with Indian Gaming. I tend to vote exactly opposite of the way the casinos want me to.
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01-30-2008, 09:18 PM	#2
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Ah, but which casinos? Las Vegas casinos want you to vote one way, Indian casinos another. Arghghh.
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01-30-2008, 09:21 PM	#3
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	Well, I live in California. I don't care what Vegas wants.
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01-30-2008, 09:24 PM	#4
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	This may be awfully racist and stupid of me, but I think it's high time we stopped treating native americans as some sort of separate nation. Um, yeah, it's been 300 years. I know they are oppressed, but they are not a nation unto themselves and they should not have separate laws and a separate, illegal economy (which "in" tribes use to oppress the other tribes). Bah.
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01-30-2008, 09:36 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I'll be interested to see if Helen has a response to that and what it is.
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01-30-2008, 10:23 PM	#8
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	Why the hell did this thread just put the song "Two Tribes" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood into my head? __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
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01-30-2008, 11:42 PM	#10
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	I just found the Indians on the vote No ads less attractive than the vote Yes Indians __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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