Yes, we can.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Pretty amazing pictures from Oregon, where an estimated 65,000 attended and another 15,000 were turned away.



I'm assuming that Sleepyjeff is somewhere in that picture.

Give you a dollar if you can find me

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Pretty amazing pictures from Oregon, where an estimated 65,000 attended and another 15,000 were turned away.

Interesting and little known fact.....there was a free 45 minute concert by a group called The Decemberists. Obama packs in the crowds, certainly, but I think this may have boosted the crowd.

Something telling to me, and others (I have no doubt) will say this is another thing that doesn't matter.....The Decemberists, according to Wikipedia, named themselves after a lesser known 1825 revolt against imperialist Russia. The thing I find most interesting - they begin their concerts with the National Anthem of the Soviet Union.

Now why the hell would a candidate want a group that plays the National Anthem of the Soviet Union on a regular basis to perform at a campaign rally? It is obviously a political statement on the behalf of the band. "He couldn't have known!" will be the cry, and that's probably true. But the people that work for him and set it up certainly did, and frankly, I find that disgusting. The Soviet Union was an oppressive, murderous place. I work with a Ukrainian immigrant and while he doesn't like to talk about it much, the stories I've heard him tell are damn scary.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Now why the hell would a candidate want a group that plays the National Anthem of the Soviet Union on a regular basis to perform at a campaign rally?

I wonder how many people look at something like this and say "that's the straw that broke the camel's back - I'm switching sides and not voting for Obama." I think this every time I hear some other slight lob from one side or the other.

I'm having some major campaign fatigue. All these minor issues are bullsh.t. No one is changing their minds over these tiny "issues". Here is what matters:

a) The candidate's Iraq stance
b) The candidate's economy stance
c) The candidate's medical care stance
d) The candidate's race/gender/other character judgments that were made ages ago and will not change no matter what nontroversy is thrown around this week

I may have missed one or two other actual issues (which none of the candidates have changed positions on for a year at least). The rest of it is the prattling of dust mites living in our skin folds.

God, how I hate politics. It reveals the ultimate triviality of our minds. I find myself sucked in to the daily feedbag of supposed happenings that don't matter in the slightest. Human systems always seem to reveal the shortcomings of their creators.

Now that I've mucked around in it for this long, I'm already feeling dirty. I know that if my candidate doesn't win, I'll feel like crap, and if my candidate wins but doesn't perform to my expectation, I'll feel guilty. Here's hoping things turn out ok.

In the meanwhile, I'm beginning to roll my eyes at all of it. I have to admit though, there is one surface problem that I think merits attention - that of Hillary Clinton not dropping out. Even that is endemic of the system, and further pushes me towards simply turning my head from the carnage.

May I say - Blech.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I wonder how many people look at something like this and say "that's the straw that broke the camel's back - I'm switching sides and not voting for Obama." I think this every time I hear some other slight lob from one side or the other.

It's rather like a woman I work with. She is husband shopping. So every first date she goes on the guy is measured by the "Is this the guy I want to spend my life with" yardstick.

Needless to say, she goes on a lot of first dates.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Why would a senator flip-flop more than any other elected official?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Why would a senator flip-flop more than any other elected official?

I think it's a character issue more than anything else. I don't think it's an issue of office.

Obama is starting to wear really thin on me. He claims fear mongering when it comes to talking about terrorists, but he told a gathering of little old ladies that their social security is at risk if McCain gets elected. That's not fear mongering? He may genuinely believe that, but those who talk about Obama saying he will talk with terrorists (and he did, as noted in an earlier post) also believe it is a a genuine risk.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I think it's a character issue more than anything else. I don't think it's an issue of office.

Actually, I think that being a senator (or member of the House) does make one much more vulnerable to flip-flopping charges.

Legislators vote on a huge number of bills - I don't know how many exactly, but I would certainly think that there are thousands or tens of thousands in a single senatorial term. And many bills will have multiple versions, of which a senator might choose to support one version and vote against other stronger or weaker versions, thus opening himself up to charges of voting against something he is putatively in favor of. Additionally, many bills become huge monstrosities with dozens of clauses possibly unrelated to the original subject of the bill, so that in order to vote for a bill that you favor, you has to accept provisions that you would not support on their own. It is a common legislative maneuver to try to attach amendments to a bill that would make it politically embarrassing for your opponents to vote it up or down.

When one examines charges of flip-flopping made in recent elections, these are frequently where they come from.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Why would a senator flip-flop more than any other elected official?

Several reasons that I can think of off the top of my head.

1) They are only up for re-election every 6 years....removing them from accountability(unless they plan to run for President).

2) Old boys(and girls) network.......many of them are Senators first and Democrats/Republicans second; often changing their votes to help out an old friend across the aisle. The Senate is far less partisan then the HoRep.

Most of all though...

3) Senators, with a few exceptions, have been around for a lot longer than most other national level politicians......you are just more likely to contradict yourself the longer you have been around; situations and even personal views change.

[innerSpaceman]

Are you wearing a red and white striped cardigan and a wool cap??

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Are you wearing a red and white striped cardigan and a wool cap??

No, but you would have to go back in time to find me there. I have not attended a stage event at the waterfront since Valerie Day was singing I can't wait for New Shoes