Yes, we can. - Page 119

Scrooge McSam · 06-23-2008, 12:13 PM

God, I don't have time for this.

MoveOn shut down it's 527. Obama requested they use no funds to campaign for him. According to MoveOn organizers, they had all but dismantled the 527 by 2004. They wanted to concentrate on small donor work.

scaeagles · 06-23-2008, 12:24 PM

Pardon me. Indeed that is the case.

Soros still makes huge contributions to other 527s, including 2.5 million to one called the "Fund for America". Moveon.org isn't done with their political campaigning, though, and has partered with some Pennsylvania Labor Unions to run ads critical of McCain.

Whether it is moveon or some other 527, there will certainly be 527 groups attacking McCain, the same as there will be 527 groups attacking Obama.

Alex · 06-23-2008, 12:51 PM

Yeah, but McCain can't complain about them, can he? He invented them and at the same time made it illegal for an official campaign to overtly try to control them. It could be viewed as illegal for any 527, on either side, to run a blatantly false add and for the benefiting campaign to say "Don't run that any more" and then have them stop. Coordination between 527s and campaigns is not allowed and that includes decisions on what not to run.

Yes, there will be plenty of despicable ads from various 527s over the next five months from all sides of the spectrum. But I won't hold them against either candidate.

I must admit I'm not seeing the logic behind your upsettedness in post 1211. But then I've not seen the original remarks to know if they say anything beyond the simple list of ways that he expects to be undermined in the campaign.

scaeagles · 06-23-2008, 01:01 PM

He is expecting (or at least hoping) that the legitimate youth and inexperience cries are equated to those that are not legitimate by lumping them into the same statement.

It is smart politics, no doubt, but I find it despicable to draw a line through all of those as the same type of criticism.

And Alex, you are exactly right. I hate McCain Feingold and it is one of the primary reasons I vomit at the thought of voting for the man.

Cadaverous Pallor · 06-23-2008, 06:30 PM

You have not posted a link so I don't know what he actually said. But according to you, all he's claiming is that these are all things that people will say about him, trying to scare people away. Which is totally true. Your complaint seems like a massive stretch to me.

"Um....he's black. He is too young. He doesn't have enough experience to protect us from terrorism. He is a secret Muslim - look at his name....."
"THINGS PEOPLE SAY ABOUT OBAMA TO SCARE AWAY VOTERS?"
"RIGHT!"
Dick Clark: "You win the $20,000 Pyramid!"

scaeagles · 06-23-2008, 08:38 PM

My problem is that he is attempting, by listing them together, to say that people who say he is young or inexperienced are as stupid as those who say he's black or a muslim, and that his youth and inexperience are as invalid as the other two.

innerSpaceman · 06-23-2008, 08:48 PM

You've asserted that before, scaeagles. But I wish you had the wherewithal to admit that's how you perceive it, but it's not necessarily (nor necessarily not) the way it was intended by Obama.

CP's $20,000 Pyramid analogy is just as likely as not. This time, I think it's the ear of the behearlder.

scaeagles · 06-23-2008, 08:55 PM

Oh, indeed, it is how I percieve it. And I think I also said he's a smart politician for doing it.

innerSpaceman · 06-23-2008, 08:59 PM

Only to the extent potential voters are dumb enough to assume everything on a given list has equal value.

scaeagles · 06-23-2008, 09:04 PM

I think the vast majority of voters - on both sides - are dumb.

06-23-2008, 12:13 PM	#1
Scrooge McSam What? Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,635	God, I don't have time for this. MoveOn shut down it's 527. Obama requested they use no funds to campaign for him. According to MoveOn organizers, they had all but dismantled the 527 by 2004. They wanted to concentrate on small donor work.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 12:24 PM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Pardon me. Indeed that is the case. Soros still makes huge contributions to other 527s, including 2.5 million to one called the "Fund for America". Moveon.org isn't done with their political campaigning, though, and has partered with some Pennsylvania Labor Unions to run ads critical of McCain. Whether it is moveon or some other 527, there will certainly be 527 groups attacking McCain, the same as there will be 527 groups attacking Obama.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 12:51 PM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Yeah, but McCain can't complain about them, can he? He invented them and at the same time made it illegal for an official campaign to overtly try to control them. It could be viewed as illegal for any 527, on either side, to run a blatantly false add and for the benefiting campaign to say "Don't run that any more" and then have them stop. Coordination between 527s and campaigns is not allowed and that includes decisions on what not to run. Yes, there will be plenty of despicable ads from various 527s over the next five months from all sides of the spectrum. But I won't hold them against either candidate. I must admit I'm not seeing the logic behind your upsettedness in post 1211. But then I've not seen the original remarks to know if they say anything beyond the simple list of ways that he expects to be undermined in the campaign.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 01:01 PM	#4
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	He is expecting (or at least hoping) that the legitimate youth and inexperience cries are equated to those that are not legitimate by lumping them into the same statement. It is smart politics, no doubt, but I find it despicable to draw a line through all of those as the same type of criticism. And Alex, you are exactly right. I hate McCain Feingold and it is one of the primary reasons I vomit at the thought of voting for the man.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 06:30 PM	#5
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	You have not posted a link so I don't know what he actually said. But according to you, all he's claiming is that these are all things that people will say about him, trying to scare people away. Which is totally true. Your complaint seems like a massive stretch to me. "Um....he's black. He is too young. He doesn't have enough experience to protect us from terrorism. He is a secret Muslim - look at his name....." "THINGS PEOPLE SAY ABOUT OBAMA TO SCARE AWAY VOTERS?" "RIGHT!" Dick Clark: "You win the $20,000 Pyramid!" __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 08:38 PM	#6
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	My problem is that he is attempting, by listing them together, to say that people who say he is young or inexperienced are as stupid as those who say he's black or a muslim, and that his youth and inexperience are as invalid as the other two.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 08:48 PM	#7
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	You've asserted that before, scaeagles. But I wish you had the wherewithal to admit that's how you perceive it, but it's not necessarily (nor necessarily not) the way it was intended by Obama. CP's $20,000 Pyramid analogy is just as likely as not. This time, I think it's the ear of the behearlder.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 08:55 PM	#8
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Oh, indeed, it is how I percieve it. And I think I also said he's a smart politician for doing it.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 08:59 PM	#9
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Only to the extent potential voters are dumb enough to assume everything on a given list has equal value.
	Submit to Quotes

06-23-2008, 09:04 PM	#10
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I think the vast majority of voters - on both sides - are dumb.
	Submit to Quotes