College for all - right?

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Whereas someone with a Bachelor's degree has many more options.

I'm not sure this is true. Students have to take a bunch of classes within their major, but other than that the classes are academic, not practical. Unless talking about history or renaissance literature is a skill, A graduate with a BA is really only trained for one thing.

[3894]

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

I bought a PhD off the interwebs.

My Ph.D. is the real thing. Until eight years ago, I was a college professor (yes, tenured and everything. I got so burned out I was crispy. Time to do something else.). I am from an academic family and I am married to a newly-retired professor and former chair.

I'm happy to try to answer any questions about the issues brought up in the article.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

That is a double-edged sword. If a high-school counselor told a student that they were not good enough for college, and that they should consider a vocational program, then they run the risk of a parent bringing down the wrath: "How dare you say that my child is too stupid for college."

And therein lies the issue. The only reason they'd have that reaction is because society has managed to define college as "better than" trade school. That's the articles real point, imo. "Not cut out for college" should not be de-facto "stupid".

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

The question becomes: how MUCH less worthy is the degree? I would like to think that the decrease is minimal, but I am not dealing with people fresh out of college. Yes, there will be people who manage to get out of college without an education/skill set that reflects the degree. But I truly do hope the number is negligible.

Depends on the job, I guess. But where I work, a BA/BS is generally a requirement. And they don't care which BA/BS, or from which school. All resumes are reviewed by computer. So, someone with amazing experience won't even be seen by human eyes, but someone with a UoP degree will. Even if they are complete idiots.

And yes, I really do need my staff to have some critical thinking skills. And a degree - a "real" degree - would have one indicator. So would relevant experience. But because the powers that be have decided that any BA/BS will do, it's basically a useless evaluator for me.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

True, but that kind of presumes that the parent is involved.

A whole other topic (I believe that too many parents are not parenting, but that is another thread on another day). But there are some parents who will quickly be involved if they think that little Johnny is being shortchanged (and it is usually a very misguided reaction by said parent).

Originally Posted by tracilicious

I'm not sure this is true. Students have to take a bunch of classes within their major, but other than that the classes are academic, not practical. Unless talking about history or renaissance literature is a skill, A graduate with a BA is really only trained for one thing.

I disagree. Assuming that the Bachelor's, Master's, et.al education is a good one, one is educated in a broad spectrum of subjects beyond the requirements for the major. Whereas with a technical certificate, one is only educated in the targeted area.

I felt like the biggest thing that I gained out of my college education (besides being able to live in San Luis Obispo for three years) was an education on how to learn. It broadened my knowledge base in areas that while not directly in my area of what would become my career, I was also enlightened to other subjects that I previously had no interest in or knowledge of. Some (Geology) bored me to tears. I learned more in a 100 level Philosophy course than I did in many of my 300 and 400 level major courses (but that was because I happened to have a GREAT professor for that class that really inspired me). I gained a lot of valuable tools in extra-curricular activities that definitely helped me in my career. Finally, I made great contacts with visiting professionals and by going to trade shows and conferences.

Originally Posted by Prudence

Depends on the job, I guess. But where I work, a BA/BS is generally a requirement. And they don't care which BA/BS, or from which school. All resumes are reviewed by computer. So, someone with amazing experience won't even be seen by human eyes, but someone with a UoP degree will. Even if they are complete idiots.

And yes, I really do need my staff to have some critical thinking skills. And a degree - a "real" degree - would have one indicator. So would relevant experience. But because the powers that be have decided that any BA/BS will do, it's basically a useless evaluator for me.

While I agree that having a "real" degree is a plus in my eyes (from a potential employer standpoint), I would have a hard time being in a field where all resumes are reviewed by a computer.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

And you can guess what I won't be getting when I graduate.

Laid?

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

professionals and by going to trade shows and conferences.

While I agree that having a "real" degree is a plus in my eyes (from a potential employer standpoint), I would have a hard time being in a field where all resumes are reviewed by a computer.

To me, a real degree is one that teaches creative thinking - preferably a liberal arts degree.



I've done both - went to UCI for an Art History degree and went to UOP for a Business Management degree. I found both systems to have their own pluses and minuses. I didn't find the UOP education to be useless at all, but very practical and informative about other aspects of field I was already working in. It was also quite doable with my busy professional life. But, I still value my UCI education more, but it certainly didn't teach me how to be an effective Marketing Manager.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The point of his article is that he woman he describes does not deserve to graduate from any college. She is made to feel that she can do it, that she has to do it in order to be successful, and that is just plain wrong on many levels. She is not meant for college.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

The point of his article is that he woman he describes does not deserve to graduate from any college. She is made to feel that she can do it, that she has to do it in order to be successful, and that is just plain wrong on many levels. She is not meant for college.

That's the feeling out there these days. You have to graduate college or you can't be successful. You have "colleges" like Devery and ITT Tech with advertising campaigns targeting the low end of the educational spectrum. Where vocational training in criminal justice once was fine to be a police or correctional officer, you now need a degree to do the same thing. The problem with DeVery and ITT Tech is that they are still just vocational schools where classes don't transfer and the degree really is nothing more than a vocational school certificate. But the person who graduates now has a "degree" in whatever it was that they studied.

On a basic level, I define success as making a living wage. In order to make a living wage you have to have a job that pays well. In order to get a job that pays well these days, you have to have a Bachelors degree, experience, or both. Yet, for the most part the degree is looked more favorably then experience.

I had to interview hiring managers for a recent class. Over half said that they put resumes with degrees in one pile, degrees with experience in a second pile and experience with no degree in the third pile. The remainder looked at degrees then experience. In all cases, guess which stack is at the bottom of the interview call list?

Sadly, for the most part, you have to graduate college to be successful. Experience and certifications/vocational training doesn't cut it any more.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

You have "colleges" like Devry...

A friend used to work next to a Devry. They called the people who went there "Devridiots" (with apologies to anyone here who might have gone there).