All About McCain

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound with those examples? Those effect others. What I choose do to with my body effects me. You have no right to tell me what to do with my body.

How does abusing an animal "effect others"?

((Yes, this is a trap))

[lizziebith]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

So forcing me me, and my child, and his future children, and theirs, at the point of a gun, to work several months each year to support programs a war, corporate handouts/bailouts, and the creation of insane national debt, that I neither use or think necessary isn't oppressive?

fixed.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

fixed.

Thank you.....I don't entirely disagree with your changes

[scaeagles]

While your issues are not shallow, BTD, I was wondering how Tenigma knows that he is going to encourage a lot of discussion from all sides.

And just to add, you don't have the right to do with your body what you want. The list is lengthy of the can'ts, including prostitution, various drugs, selling your kidney, not wearing a helmet while on bicycle in various communities, not wearing a seatbelt in a car, whatever.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

And just to add, you don't have the right to do with your body what you want. The list is lengthy of the can'ts, including prostitution, various drugs, selling your kidney, not wearing a helmet while on bicycle in various communities, not wearing a seatbelt in a car, whatever.

If I choose to, I can be a prostitute, do drugs, sell organs, not wear a helmet or a seatbelt. I may have to pay a fine or do jail time, but I can do those. TYVM.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

And just to add, you don't have the right to do with your body what you want. The list is lengthy of the can'ts, including prostitution, various drugs, selling your kidney, not wearing a helmet while on bicycle in various communities, not wearing a seatbelt in a car, whatever.

And just for the record, I can't support any of those restrictions on what you do with your body. From your list, that's prostitution and drugs, both of which I think should be completely legalized (though likeky with some sort of regulation). Now that I think about it ... selling your kidney should be legal, as should suicide.

Helmet and seatbelt laws do NOT govern what you can do with your body, but rather what you can do with a vehicle.


Furthermore, the premise of your statement is completely wrong. These are not things we don't have the right to do. These are things that are currently illegal.

I have a right to marry the man I love in California, but if I travel to Idaho I lose that right??? Um, no. The right may not be recognized, but it exists nonetheless. The rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were not brought into existence by the Declaration of Independence; they were just brought to the world's attention.

[innerSpaceman]

And yes, sleepyjeff, I call shenanigans on the list of purported rights that do harm to other living things. No one is arguing for such rights, but rather for the right to conduct ourselves and ourselves only (perhaps in concert with those whose informed consent we gain, but in no event against another's will).


Pure and total shenanigans.



Try again.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Try again.

Why?

[Alex]

You don't think anybody is arguing for the right to abortion (which I assume is what was meant by infanticide; admittedly nobody is in favor of infanticide they just disagree on the when the infanti- part applies)?

I'm fine with almost everything mentioned that doesn't directly harm another person (and no, I don't consider an unborn child a person, I just barely consider and actually born one a person) being legal. I have discussed before the great difficulty that animal cruelty laws cause me, that I can create an argument that doesn't entirely contradict my principles, but I pretty openly admit that it is a case of me mostly twisting to get a result that I like.

[scaeagles]

My only point was that there are, many, many laws about what one can do with and to onesself, not discussing the merits or lack thereof.