All About McCain

[scaeagles]

Ridicule amongst the rest of the world....I hardly care. Most of the rest of the world is run by dictators and would be considered second or thrid world. Even in our rough times, we have an unemployment rate that European nations would love. I get that you don't like it....I just don't care if the rest of the world ridicules us.

Tenigma, I don't mean no policy wrong for the Obama cultists. It is an image of the man as almost infallable and above the political fray. He plays politics same as every other politician, has his hands dirty some as every other politician, takes the money from special interests same as every other politician.....but for some reason he isn't like every other politician.

I get that people are excited about him and not about McCain. I'm voting for McCain, but I go from "because I have to" to "I believe in him" and every where in between almost daily.

I just don't think that there is a realistic view of Obama out there.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Alex

The trouble is that there is essentially a 2 to many ratio in the swapping. It is going to pretty much be you and scaeagles taking the Republican line on positions. There are plenty of people who can take the Democratic line so really you're at a disadvantage.

You 2 pretty much always have to participate in the hypocrisy of actor-dependent position taking since there is no depth on your side. But for the other side they can take turns in it giving themselves the cover of sometimes not being involved in that hypocrisy. Once three or four people do it, the rest can step back and say "ah, that's not quite fair and I'm above it all." At least until their turn comes and then they get so say "yes, it might look hypocritical but if that is what was driving me wouldn't I have been hypocritical in all these other situations?" when in fact they were relieved of that burden by being in the majority position.

It really just emphasizes the structural disadvantage you two have on this board when it comes to arguing politics.

Well put.

There are other conservatives on this board besides the two of us.....they just don't seem to like the punishment as much as we do(I really want to put a smiley here, but I won't).

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

There are other conservatives on this board besides the two of us.....they just don't seem to like the punishment as much as we do(I really want to put a smiley here, but I won't).

Well I for one commend you and sceagles for continuing to participate.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Tenigma

Well I for one commend you and sceagles for continuing to participate.

I for two.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I just don't think that there is a realistic view of Obama out there.

I don't think there can be any scaeagles approved view of Obama as long as anything positive is said about him in that view...


I agree with Tenigma's pov. I don't agree with Obama on everything. His anti-gay marriage stance for instance. But he does have a caveat to his stance, that gays should have the same rights as a opposite sex couple. In McCainland, gays would be invisible. So, I choose to get into the rowboat with fewer holes in it.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I just don't think that there is a realistic view of Obama out there.

I think there is certainly a realistic view of Obama out there, and the fact that some of his supporters are starry-eyed (I think you overstate how many) doesn't mean that there isn't anyone who sees him realistically.

I see Obama as certainly a politician, and generally a pretty good one. He isn't an angel, as politics is a dirty business and you don't succeed at it without getting a bit of dirt on you. I don't expect that he will change the way Washington works in any significant way, but I support him because I agree with him on the majority of issues and think that he has essentially the right idea about where to lead the country. And I don't think I am an anomaly among Obama supporters, whatever you might think.

[Snowflake]

Of course, things can change in a nanosecond, but am I the only one who thinks McCain is just being pigheaded and stupid? The venue confirms the debate is still on, Obama will be there, how will McCain fare by not showing up? I don't get what he is trying to accomplish here, is he going to use this ploy to demonstrate his ability to lead? Correct me if I am wrong, isn't he a bystander?

McCain campaign won't commit to debate on Friday

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - John McCain's campaign expressed cautious optimism Thursday as congressional Republicans and Democrats agreed in principle on a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry hours before the two presidential candidates were to meet with President Bush on the crisis.

Even so, the action didn't appear to be strong enough to convince McCain to attend Friday's scheduled presidential debate. His campaign has said he wouldn't participate unless there was consensus between Congress and the administration, and a spokesman said the afternoon developments had not changed his plans.

"There's no deal until there's a deal. We're optimistic but we want to get this thing done," McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said.

Full Story, such as it is this moment, here.

In other news:

Palin defends Alaska-Russia foreign policy remark
By AMY WESTFELDT, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin defended her remark that the close proximity of Russia to her home state of Alaska gives her foreign policy experience, explaining in a CBS interview airing Thursday that "we have trade missions back and forth."

Palin has never visited Russia and until last year the 44-year-old Alaska governor had never traveled outside North America. She also had never met a foreign leader until her trip this week to New York. In the CBS interview, she did not offer any examples of having been involved in any negotiations with the Russians.

Linkie here

Frankly, I think the worlds travelers of LoT have much more foreign experience than Palin and put my faith in their collective judgement and ability to lead in a very swanky style, thank you.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Ridicule amongst the rest of the world....I hardly care. Most of the rest of the world is run by dictators and would be considered second or thrid world.

I can't even get past the first line in your post without commenting. What kind of rarified geopolitical air are you breathing, scaeagles, when you assume by "rest of the world," she meant the purported leaders of the governments of the rest of the world?


Why not assume she meant the REST OF THE WORLD, i.e., the other 5 billion people????


If those 5 billion people don't matter to you, will you kindly get the fvck off our planet!!!

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Ridicule amongst the rest of the world....I hardly care. Most of the rest of the world is run by dictators and would be considered second or thrid world.

Sceagles, I thought of you when I ran into the following article from Spiegel in Germany:

America Loses Its Dominant Economic Role

George W. Bush has grown old, erratic and rosy in the eight years of his presidency. Little remains of his combativeness or his enthusiasm for physical fitness. On this sunny Tuesday morning in New York, even his hair seemed messy and unkempt, his blue suit a little baggy around the shoulders, as Bush stepped onto the stage, for the eighth time, at the United Nations General Assembly.

He talked about terrorism and terrorist regimes, and about governments that allegedly support terror. He failed to notice that the delegates sitting in front of and below him were shaking their heads, smiling and whispering, or if he did notice, he was no longer capable of reacting. The US president gave a speech similar to the ones he gave in 2004 and 2007, mentioning the word "terror" 32 times in 22 minutes. At the 63rd General Assembly of the United Nations, George W. Bush was the only one still talking about terror and not about the topic that currently has the rest of the world's attention.

"Absurd, absurd, absurd," said one German diplomat. A French woman called him "yesterday's man" over coffee on the East River. There is another way to put it, too: Bush was a laughing stock in the gray corridors of the UN.

The American president has always had enemies in these hallways and offices at the UN building on First Avenue in Manhattan. The Iranians and Syrians despise the eternal American-Israeli coalition, while many others are tired of Bush's Americans telling the world about the blessings of deregulated markets and establishing rules "that only apply to others," says the diplomat from Berlin.

But the ridicule was a new thing. It marked the end of respect.

...

This is no longer the muscular and arrogant United States the world knows, the superpower that sets the rules for everyone else and that considers its way of thinking and doing business to be the only road to success.

A new America is on display, a country that no longer trusts its old values and its elites even less: the politicians, who failed to see the problems on the horizon, and the economic leaders, who tried to sell a fictitious world of prosperity to Americans.

Also on display is the end of arrogance. The Americans are now paying the price for their pride.

Gone are the days when the US could go into debt with abandon, without considering who would end up footing the bill. And gone are the days when it could impose its economic rules of engagement on the rest of the world, rules that emphasized profit above all else -- without ever considering that such returns cannot be achieved by doing business in a respectable way.

This stuff is horrendous... horrendous what has happened to us. This is a GLOBAL world. We have GLOBAL markets, GLOBAL issues. We've been the last superpower, and we've been squandering it away. You might not personally care what some Gaston thinks in Paree, but all of this affects all of us in the U.S.; our economy, our influence, world politics, etc.

I have to say, if you still think that how we are viewed by the rest of the world is not relevant, then you sir, are living in the 20th century, as a Monroe doctrine isolationist.

What will the rest of this planet think of us when we elect a 72-year-old senior citizen with his hottie trophy VP who appears to be completely disengaged from the world?

[Strangler Lewis]

It is an image of the man as almost infallable and above the political fray. He plays politics same as every other politician, has his hands dirty some as every other politician, takes the money from special interests same as every other politician.....but for some reason he isn't like every other politician

P.S. Avoid the Sarah Brightman version.