Joseph Ratzinger named new pope-- Benedict XVI

[scaeagles]

There is a story out about "the Jewish perspective" of Pope Benedict XVI. I found it interesting, and overall "Jewish leadership" seems to have no problem with his past.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050420/D89J5MSG0.html

[Ghoulish Delight]

"That the Jews are connected with God in a special way and that God does not want that bond to fail is entirely obvious," he wrote. "We wait for the instant in which Israel will say 'yes' to Christ, but we know that it has a special mission in history now ... which is significant for the world."

Ick. What a backhanded complement. It's like the 700 club view. "Of course we support Zionism, because once the Holy Temple is rebuilt, rapture will come. See, those Jews are good for something, they must be if God's letting the bastards stick around." Ick.

He can show up to all the Museusms of Jewish Heritage he wants, doesn't change the fact that he ordered Cahtolics to not take communion with Lutherans. And ordered clergy to turn their backs on pregnant teens. Hardly the bastion of tolerance and compassion, and his support of Jewish Orthodoxy, which has the same flaws as strict Catholicism, doesn't change that.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

He can show up to all the Museusms of Jewish Heritage he wants, doesn't change the fact that he ordered Cahtolics to not take communion with Lutherans. And ordered clergy to turn their backs on pregnant teens. Hardly the bastion of tolerance and compassion, and his support of Jewish Orthodoxy, which has the same flaws as strict Catholicism, doesn't change that.

Yesterday I read that he ordered a nun to stop ministering to gays and lesbians. I can't find that info today. Oy, I should have been keeping close track.

[MickeyD]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Yesterday I read that he ordered a nun to stop ministering to gays and lesbians. I can't find that info today. Oy, I should have been keeping close track.

I mentioned her yesterday in a post. Her name is Sister Jeannine Gramick



The Grace alone vs. Grace & good works (I won't even touch the money comment) has always been a sticking point in Catholic/Lutheran dialogue. That is why the fact that there was a group of Catholics and a group of Lutheran wishing to receive communion together was pretty damn cool, and the fact that Ratzinger stifled that is pretty damn sad.

The thing that bugs me is this. He's going to be appointing Cardinals, and the Cardinals are going to be electing the next pope....how much more conservative is that guy going to be? Other than that, no biggie....as my pastor pointed out yesterday, who listens to the Pope anyway.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Ick. What a backhanded complement. It's like the 700 club view. "Of course we support Zionism, because once the Holy Temple is rebuilt, rapture will come. See, those Jews are good for something, they must be if God's letting the bastards stick around." Ick.

He can show up to all the Museusms of Jewish Heritage he wants, doesn't change the fact that he ordered Cahtolics to not take communion with Lutherans. And ordered clergy to turn their backs on pregnant teens. Hardly the bastion of tolerance and compassion, and his support of Jewish Orthodoxy, which has the same flaws as strict Catholicism, doesn't change that.

Couldn't disagree more.

He is a man who believes (obviously) that Christ is the only way to salvation. So you would rather he say "Jews are free to worship as they believe and we embrace them, even though this means they will burn in hell."? He is saying that he respects them, what they have been through, their place in history, and that he hopes someday they come to Christ to share in the salvation which his faith says is based on such acceptance. Why is hope that someone will share your faith a horrid thing?

Turn their backs on pregnant teens? No, they were instructed not to counsel then that abortion was a viable option, if I am not mistaken (could be).

As far as not sharing communion with Lutherans, I have a theory, though I cannt be sure - Catholics have a doctrine which says they the communion wafer and wine actually turn to the body and blood of Christ. Not my thing, but that's their doctrine. As far as I know, Lutheran's do not share that belief. Would not that therefore result in the sacrament not being compatable between the two religions, meaning something different to the two?

I would offer that though these things were certainly from the pen of Ratzinger, he was tight with JP II, and JP II had the final say on such things and I am certain that JP II either reviewed, was notified, or would have quashed such things had he not been.

[jdramj]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

As far as not sharing communion with Lutherans, I have a theory, though I cannt be sure - Catholics have a doctrine which says they the communion wafer and wine actually turn to the body and blood of Christ. Not my thing, but that's their doctrine. As far as I know, Lutheran's do not share that belief. Would not that therefore result in the sacrament not being compatable between the two religions, meaning something different to the two?

Ok..being Lutheran...yes, we do not believe it actually turns into the blood and body of Jesus, we are more of thinking it is symbolic, the meaning probably isn't much different though in the long run.

However, it goes deeper. We do not believe in all the sacraments that Catholics do, you know...no saints...that we are saved through faith, not with good works or money....yada..yada..yada...(I could go on here, but I'll stop myself for the good of others) And since we are essentially a rebel bunch of believers that opposed the Catholic beliefs to become a seperate religion that started from being Catholic in the first place (Martin Luther), I'm sure there are orthodox Catholics that would like to have nothing more to do with us traitors. IMHO......

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by jdramj

And since we are essentially a rebel bunch of believers that opposed the Catholic beliefs to become a seperate religion that started from being Catholic in the first place (Martin Luther), I'm sure there are orthodox Catholics that would like to have nothing more to do with us traitors. IMHO......

So you are suggesting Ratzinger carries a centuries old grudge from the reformation?

[jdramj]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So you are suggesting Ratzinger carries a centuries old grudge from the reformation?

We may never know...it was just a thought. I have heard something about his possible religious intolerant tendencies, though I believe it to be aimed elsewhere not at other Christian denominations.

So who knows?

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by jdramj

However, it goes deeper. We do not believe in all the sacraments that Catholics do, you know...no saints...that we are saved through faith, not with good works or money....yada..yada..yada...

Just to set the record straight, as a Catholic, I don't believe that good works and money are the source of my salvation.

My family, including in-laws through my husband and my brother, is made up of many denominations. My SIL (husband's sister) converted to Judaism. We also have Lutherans, born-again Christians, atheists and Catholics. Everyone gets along fine and respects the beliefs of the other family members.

I am dissapointed in the choice of Pope. But I see every Pope as a human being. He has his many flaws, just like the rest of us.

[jdramj]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

Just to set the record straight, as a Catholic, I don't believe that good works and money are the source of my salvation.

No worries....I wasn't saying that is how it is now...but rather that was the Lutheran thought process. Sorry to speak of past and present together without proper disclaimers accordingly.


hehehe