A Prop 8 challenge for swankers

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.

Thank you for that ray of light on this very, very dark day.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again.

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality.

I don't disagree with you on that point. I just think that a rally will not change any enemy minds.

Originally Posted by madmonkeygirl

what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc.

The most likely scenarios are:

1. The kid stays in the closet and becomes sick and/or commits suicide.
2. The kid grows up and becomes a gay basher. He who screams "fag" loudest invariably is one.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

Just as nothing could have changed the minds of people who didn't think blacks were human.

The good news is, you don't have to change the minds of those too entrenched to change. You need to change the minds of the small few who are simply misinformed, and the ones who just didn't understand the importance and didn't vote.

Prop 8 did not win in a landslide. It barely snuck by. The louder those of us who know better are now, the more likely things will tilt the other way next time.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

nothing could have changed the minds of people who didn't think blacks were human.

I agree with you. The only way this situation will change is when the courts force the ignorant to play nice. But judges don't make decisions based on how many people attended a post-election rally. The good judges (ones not unduly influenced by imaginary friends) make decisions based on what is fair and just.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

I agree with you. The only way this situation will change is when the courts force the ignorant to play nice. But judges don't make decisions based on how many people attended a post-election rally. The good judges (ones not unduly influenced by imaginary friends) make decisions based on what is fair and just.

The Civil Rights act in 1964 was passed by Congress and signed into law by the President. Elected officials acting because they could not ignore a motivated citizenship that was not standing by quietly waiting for judges to fix things.

Obama got flack for this old quote, but it's a good message:

"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that."

And beyond all that, think back to being taught about the civil rights movement during your own formative years. What do you remember as having the biggest impression on you? The kind of impression that ensured that your generation was instilled with a sense of tolerance and equality for people no like yourself. Was it details of court rulings? Or was it images like these:






This isn't about this election. It isn't about the next election. It's not about 3 lawsuits, a pending court battle, or even a possible federal Supreme Court ruling. It's about letting everyone know that human beings deserve rights and being sure no one forgets it. It's about making sure future generations know that people are willing to fight for their right.

I understand being too angry to want to face the insurmountable force of ignorance yourself. But there are people who are planning to stand in the streets and proclaim their support for you as a human being. I cheer them on, and wish I could be there myself. I hope you feel the same.

[BarTopDancer]

Andrew sent me this a bit earlier. It may have come before LHC conceeded

Nov 05, 2008 Statement by No on Prop 8 Campaign on Election Status [http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/s...status/%5d Roughly 400,000 votes separate yes from no on Prop 8 – out of 10 million votes tallied. Based on turnout estimates reported yesterday, we expect that there are more than 3 million and possibly as many as 4 million absentee and provisional ballots yet to be counted. Given that fundamental rights are at stake, we must wait to hear from the Secretary of State tomorrow how many votes are yet to be counted as well as where they are from. It is clearly a very close election and we monitored the results all evening and this morning. As of this point, the election is too close to call. Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome. Geoff Kors Executive Committee NO on Prop 8 K

[innerSpaceman]

GC, check your PMs.


All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones?

[Andrew]

As the vote counting continued this morning, opponents of Prop. 8 filed a lawsuit directly with the state Supreme Court - whose May 15 ruling legalized same-sex marriage - asking the justices to overturn the measure.

The suit argued that Prop. 8 would change the California Constitution in such fundamental ways - taking important rights away from a minority group - that it amounted to a constitutional revision, which requires approval by the Legislature before being submitted to the voters.

Source

[Isaac]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

GC, check your PMs.


All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones?

Need directions too, please

[BarTopDancer]

Mormon leaders urge respect for foes in gay-marriage debate.

Link

Now that California voters have outlawed same-sex marriage, an LDS Church leader called Wednesday for members to heal any rifts caused by the emotional campaign by treating each other with "civility, with respect and with love."

So now that they got what they wanted they should love thy neighbor?

I feel like I've just been slapped in the face.

[Morrigoon]

Amendments cannot be struck from the Constitution, they must be repealed by a subsequent amendment. So I sincerely hope someone is starting the signature-gathering effort RIGHT NOW for that amendment.