MLB '09 - Page 8

Ghoulish Delight · 04-07-2009, 07:19 AM

You know, I've always thought it was lame that a run that scores due to a fielding error by the pitcher is considered an unearned run. I look at E.R.A. to mean "average number of runs scored due to this pitcher being on the mound." The pitcher himself making the error would count towards that, in my world.

Tom · 04-07-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I look at E.R.A. to mean "average number of runs scored due to this pitcher being on the mound." The pitcher himself making the error would count towards that, in my world.

I always took ERA to indicate the number of runs scored due to that pitcher's pitching. Which would be why runs scored on the pitcher's errors would not be included.

Ghoulish Delight · 04-07-2009, 07:46 AM

I know that's the reason. I just think it would make more sense to include runs due to his own errors. I mean, ERA is about assessing your chances of winning if, all other things being equal, it's that guy on the mound vs. someone else. It's supposed to say "we expect the other team to score X # of runs, on average, if he's pitching." It seems logical to me to include otherwise unearned runs that are his fault.

In the end, it's rarely more than a run or two a year for any pitcher, so it's not like it matters. It's just always seemed like including those runs would make ERA a more complete statistic.

Tom · 04-07-2009, 07:51 AM

I never took that to be the purpose of ERA. It seems to me that it is and should be a measure of strictly pitching effectiveness. There are other statistics to measure fielding. And still other statistics to assess overall value.

In the NL, at least, a pitcher's batting affects there ability to win games as well. Should that be factored into ERA?

Ghoulish Delight · 04-07-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

In the NL, at least, a pitcher's batting affects there ability to win games as well. Should that be factored into ERA?

No, because I think ERA should be about how many runs the other team is likely to score with that pitcher pitching. And to my mind, that includes errors he's responsible for.

Kevy Baby · 04-09-2009, 09:30 AM

Nick Adenhart, Angels pitcher, killed in Fullerton crash

Quote:

Angels' pitcher Nick Adenhart was among the three killed in a crash in Fullerton when a driver ran a red light, an associate of the rookie player said this morning. The crash occurred only hours after the 22-year-old appeared in Wednesday night's Angels game.

How bizarre and tragic. He was the starting pitcher and left the game with his team winning. I drove near the crash site this morning after a blood test (was detoured around it).

Wow

More

SacTown Chronic · 04-09-2009, 09:41 AM

Sucks.

Alex · 04-07-2009, 07:59 AM

If you want a measure of a pitcher that includes pitching and fielding then I think Win Shares is what you're after (and in the NL this would also include batting).

ERA isn't a particularly useful number when you get down to brass tacks but like Tom I view it not as a complete measure of the pitcher but rather just of pitching.

Ghoulish Delight · 04-09-2009, 10:17 AM

That's 2 Angels-related deaths already this season.

Kevy Baby · 04-09-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

That's 2 Angels-related deaths already this season.

Angel's Baseball 2009: It's to Die For™

04-07-2009, 07:19 AM	#1
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	You know, I've always thought it was lame that a run that scores due to a fielding error by the pitcher is considered an unearned run. I look at E.R.A. to mean "average number of runs scored due to this pitcher being on the mound." The pitcher himself making the error would count towards that, in my world. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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04-07-2009, 07:46 AM	#3
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I know that's the reason. I just think it would make more sense to include runs due to his own errors. I mean, ERA is about assessing your chances of winning if, all other things being equal, it's that guy on the mound vs. someone else. It's supposed to say "we expect the other team to score X # of runs, on average, if he's pitching." It seems logical to me to include otherwise unearned runs that are his fault. In the end, it's rarely more than a run or two a year for any pitcher, so it's not like it matters. It's just always seemed like including those runs would make ERA a more complete statistic. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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04-07-2009, 07:51 AM	#4
Tom Valued member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 541	I never took that to be the purpose of ERA. It seems to me that it is and should be a measure of strictly pitching effectiveness. There are other statistics to measure fielding. And still other statistics to assess overall value. In the NL, at least, a pitcher's batting affects there ability to win games as well. Should that be factored into ERA?
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04-09-2009, 09:41 AM	#7
SacTown Chronic the myth of the dream Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,217	Sucks. __________________ Is it the fingers, or the brain that you're teaching a lesson?
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04-07-2009, 07:59 AM	#8
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	If you want a measure of a pitcher that includes pitching and fielding then I think Win Shares is what you're after (and in the NL this would also include batting). ERA isn't a particularly useful number when you get down to brass tacks but like Tom I view it not as a complete measure of the pitcher but rather just of pitching.
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04-09-2009, 10:17 AM	#9
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	That's 2 Angels-related deaths already this season. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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