Should children be forced to stand and say the Pledge of Allegience? - Page 6

Strangler Lewis · 02-19-2009, 06:49 AM

The whole breathing pattern changes if you leave out "under God." It's very uncomfortable. I don't know how people managed before it was put in.

Obviously, "under God" doesn't belong in the pledge or "God Save The Queen" or any of it. And "My Country 'Tis Of Thee" is full of pathetic fallacies because a country isn't a person and freedom can't ring.

If somebody wants to stand politely and not say some or all of the pledge, I'd have no problem with it. But if, say, I had a high school kid who wanted to make a big show of sitting down or turning his back during the pledge because America is, like, fascist, I would not beam with pride over that, except that it would give me an excuse to cut off all car contributions because Gandhi would walk.

Still, that is why we should have things like the pledge in school: to give kids to think about and overreact against so that they can eventually find their way towards the sacred, imaginary middle.

bewitched · 02-19-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

But if, say, I had a high school kid who wanted to make a big show of sitting down or turning his back during the pledge because America is, like, fascist.

Guess you missed the word "respectfully". And hell, I'd be happy if more HS kids understood the meaning of fascist...and democratic.

Quote:

Still, that is why we should have things like the pledge in school: to give kids to think about and overreact against so that they can eventually find their way towards the sacred, imaginary middle.

I suppose one person's thoughtful protest is another person's overreaction. Fair enough. Me, I'm glad our forefathers "overreacted" against the King.

Not Afraid · 02-19-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

The whole breathing pattern changes if you leave out "under God." It's very uncomfortable. I don't know how people managed before it was put in.

I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of the United States of America
And to the republic for which it stands
One nation, UnderDog, indivisible
With liberty and justice for all

Betty · 02-19-2009, 08:05 AM

What does "tis of thee" mean anyway?

Stangler - I loved your post. Almost makes me wish more kids would stand up for something they believe in... just to get them interested in something and think!

I remember thinking that high school was basically a baby sitting service until you were old enough to be legally an adult and get on with your life. Looking at it now - it's very much like that. Sure some kids really take advantage of it and learn alot. But me - not so much. I skated by -did as little as I could - got mostly B's and C's and looked for trouble, and ways to get out of going to school.

bewitched · 02-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betty

What does "tis of thee" mean anyway?

It basically means, "this song is for (or about) you."

Kevy Baby · 02-19-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bewitched

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betty

What does "tis of thee" mean anyway?

It basically means, "this song is for (or about) you."

My country this song is for you

I don't get it

Strangler Lewis · 02-20-2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bewitched

It basically means, "this song is for (or about) you."

My country, you're so vain . . .

Cadaverous Pallor · 02-19-2009, 09:15 AM

"One nation, indivisible" is too reactionary towards the Civil War. I guess people trying to mend Red and Blue might think it useful these days but it's almost a case of protesting too much. Like if siblings squabble and mom makes them say "You're my sister and I love you" as part of a making up process. This country IS divisible - pick your dividing line, it has been divided for a long ass time, actually - but that's the case of any large group of people.

Betty · 02-19-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

"One nation, indivisible" is too reactionary towards the Civil War. I guess people trying to mend Red and Blue might think it useful these days but it's almost a case of protesting too much. Like if siblings squabble and mom makes them say "You're my sister and I love you" as part of a making up process. This country IS divisible - pick your dividing line, it has been divided for a long ass time, actually - but that's the case of any large group of people.

Yeah - but "one nation, who argues about everything, with liberty and justice for some" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Alex · 02-19-2009, 07:47 PM

Getting rid of the fancy language:

My country, it is ('tis) about you (of thee), a land of liberty (sweet land of liberty), I sing (of thee I sing).

Makes perfect sense to me.

02-19-2009, 06:49 AM	#1
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	The whole breathing pattern changes if you leave out "under God." It's very uncomfortable. I don't know how people managed before it was put in. Obviously, "under God" doesn't belong in the pledge or "God Save The Queen" or any of it. And "My Country 'Tis Of Thee" is full of pathetic fallacies because a country isn't a person and freedom can't ring. If somebody wants to stand politely and not say some or all of the pledge, I'd have no problem with it. But if, say, I had a high school kid who wanted to make a big show of sitting down or turning his back during the pledge because America is, like, fascist, I would not beam with pride over that, except that it would give me an excuse to cut off all car contributions because Gandhi would walk. Still, that is why we should have things like the pledge in school: to give kids to think about and overreact against so that they can eventually find their way towards the sacred, imaginary middle. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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02-19-2009, 08:05 AM	#4
Betty Kicking up my heels! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Silver State Posts: 3,783	What does "tis of thee" mean anyway? Stangler - I loved your post. Almost makes me wish more kids would stand up for something they believe in... just to get them interested in something and think! I remember thinking that high school was basically a baby sitting service until you were old enough to be legally an adult and get on with your life. Looking at it now - it's very much like that. Sure some kids really take advantage of it and learn alot. But me - not so much. I skated by -did as little as I could - got mostly B's and C's and looked for trouble, and ways to get out of going to school. __________________ Nee Stell Thue
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02-19-2009, 09:15 AM	#8
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	"One nation, indivisible" is too reactionary towards the Civil War. I guess people trying to mend Red and Blue might think it useful these days but it's almost a case of protesting too much. Like if siblings squabble and mom makes them say "You're my sister and I love you" as part of a making up process. This country IS divisible - pick your dividing line, it has been divided for a long ass time, actually - but that's the case of any large group of people. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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02-19-2009, 07:47 PM	#10
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Getting rid of the fancy language: My country, it is ('tis) about you (of thee), a land of liberty (sweet land of liberty), I sing (of thee I sing). Makes perfect sense to me.
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