Lost! - Page 136

innerSpaceman · 05-24-2010, 07:26 AM

I rather liked it, and not just because I was right all along.

In that, the show was about a limbo of sorts. It was clearly about that in the first season, and clearly about that in the last. That they shifted the "location" of limbo from the island to a sideways universe does not change the story --- especially since they only thing they were able to "wrap up" was the limbo storyline -- while there was no wrap-up whatsoever of The Island.

That didn't bother me. I don't much care which question is "answered" and which mystery is left unsolved. I like that the finale engendered a lot of conversation and theorizing at Heidi and Tom's most excellent Last Lost party. And unlike some of the recent episodes that were supposed to be emotionally affective (but did not hit me as such), this one packed a punch of strong feelings for me.

I was a little meh about the demise of anti-locke, and of course revealing "the light" to be yet another set-piece ("the cork") was no revelation at all. But these were quibbles in an otherwise rather fine episode. The Christian religiosity certainly didn't bug me - - limbo and purgatory are essentially Christian concepts.

Um, one question occurred to me - and maybe I just missed it: Did they show what became of Island Desmond after he was pulled out of the Cork Cave? I mean, Ben and Hugo team up for Lost, the Animated Series. Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Richard, Miles and Lapides escape on the plane. Jack dies. Did they ever show Desmond again? Did he just wander off into the woods? Did he have a delayed reaction time-shift that he was expecting?

I think the limbo matrix co-created by the Losties would have seemed more plausible if it was just the tight group of Losties who had been through so much together. Bringing in Boon and Shannon and the neighbor's cat was a little silly, imo. So was Sayid and Shannon getting together for the afterlife, as if she were the love of his soul, instead of the quick fling they once shared (which, had it not been for their touch-flash, I would not have even remembered!)

Quibbles and bits. I liked it. Christian Shepard's final appearance was a bit more powerful, experiencing it with two other people who have recently lost a parent. The writers couldn't have scripted that, but I think it infused the ending with a certain oomph for us.

A surprising thumbs-up from me.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 05-24-2010, 08:29 AM

I think we are to assume that Desmond took Lockness Monster's boat, since he knew how to sail.

I only wish the Island had been Limbo, as I think planned. Jack seeing his Dad, Locke being able to walk, Walt reading a comic that included a polar bear and essentially manifesting one, and the whispers (which reminded me of The Others), all seem to be evidence of this plan. Seems like the writers went out of their way to convince us otherwise when so many of us guessed that, creating a diversion that looks in retrospect like very bad writing. But I don't mind that the show was about flawed people coming together, forming various kinds of relationships, and coming to terms with themselves. Purpose of the show stays true but I maintain it would probably have worked better if they hadn't gone so far out of their way to tell it.

Cadaverous Pallor · 05-24-2010, 09:12 AM

So much to post.

Seems apparent that everyone who watched it now knows that the original idea was limbo, and when people called it on them they flinched. The really sh.tty thing is that in creating another reality that is then limbo, the TV show about the island is completely pointless. You could end ANY story with "and when they died eventually, either in the circumstance or long since, they all met up in the afterlife." The show could have been about anything, at all.

Speaking of rendered pointless - as EH mentioned above, Shannon and Sayid?? What about Sayid and his amazing story of love in war torn Iraq? I always adored his backstory and to have that swept under the rug for bimbo Shannon is pathetic. I'm also annoyed that this "one true love" thing affects how we view Kate and Sawyer's relationship, which they again worked so hard to build up. When Kate and Jack separated I thought they made it abundantly clear that they weren't meant for each other. One could argue misdirection, but I argue lameness.

Shannon and Boone get to take their bows, but not even a cameo from Michael and/or Walt. And what about Mr. Eko? If Rose weren't there you could practically accuse the writers of racism.

I said to GD earlier that this show wrapped up the emotional side of the show but left the mental side untouched...but now I'm thinking that it wrapped up only certain aspects of the emotional side.

It was incredible for the first two-thirds or so. All the flashing rememberances were so emotional, so real. As they flashed, we flashed, we remembered that we've been there, with them, for so long. For all the movie and literary references this show has brought to mind, I kept thinking of The Neverending Story last night - from breathlessly staying in touch with these characters to the world collapsing. I even turned to GD during the island destruction moments and said "It's The Nothing!" Seeing as how the cork/light etc remain wonderfully nebulous, "The Nothing" is an especially appropriate name.

Still, Sun and Jin truly reunited, Hurley going to get Charlie, even Juliet and Sawyer (which I give credit to the actors for, as I had a hard time buying into them at all), and my God, the Charlie/Claire/Aaron part....such powerful stuff.

Yeah, total sap for childbirth scenes now.

I was laughing and BAWLING. Never mind that I adored them way back when and it's been so long!...

Just thinking about it all, it's a rollercoaster.

LSPoorEeyorick · 05-24-2010, 08:42 AM

Yeah, I think you guys are all right on with the shoulda-been-limbo-all-along argument.

I was surprised how much I enjoyed the episode - I was right with it throughout the whole episode... right up until Jack opened the coffin in Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Chapel. At that moment, I knew what was going on - but I was in my head, grieving for that moment I'm not sure I'll ever get with my mom. (Side note - it was the anniversary of her death and I hadn't really processed that fact until that moment.) Pulled me out of the episode completely, so I'm not sure I've got a response to the series ending. It ended. They didn't answer stuff. I liked the emotional satisfaction. I feel kind of manipulated. But they focused on the characters, and since that was my biggest argument against the Jacob/Brother episode, I probably feel somewhat OK.

mousepod · 05-24-2010, 09:15 AM

Here I was midway through Season 6 thinking the sideways was "The Last Temptation of Christ", when it turned out to be "Jacob's Ladder".

innerSpaceman · 05-24-2010, 09:36 AM

Bwahaha.

Oh, and I take back what I said about the inhabitants of cooperatively-created limbo. There were so many side characters from the Island there this season that it's obviously a catch-all limbo for ex-Islanders, and not at all created merely by people close to one another.

Of course, CP is right that the show could have taken place anywhere, and I suppose I'm a bit disappointed that the Island didn't figure into anything but "stuff happened." But I've felt along that the story was just a bunch of stuff happening, cool stuff meant to perplex and confound and entertain and intrigue - - but never with any real "answers" or "solutions" ever conceived by the writers. It was all a fun detour of questions and mysteries taken from the limbo story first being told, and finally returned to at the end.

I both enjoyed it and get to be smug about it. I'm a happy ex-Lostian.

So now I'll sip my leftover bottle of Dharma water, and ponder the show for the rest of the day. Of course, Dharma labels were on 90% of the foodstuffs last night, including dozens of different, individually (re-)wrapped chocolates. Everyone was handed an Oceanic Flight 815 boarding pass upon arrival, and their names were crossed off from a wall which listed all the anticipated guests. I was reluctant to eat any of the biscuits with The Numbers carved into them, but eventually consumed #8, and I think #15 was left over at the end of the night - if that portends anything. The Clucky's chicken was ultra-yummy, the costumes were adorable, and the company grand. Thanks again to H & T for a wonderful send-off to this great show which has annoyed me and entertained me for such an epic run.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 05-24-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

So now I'll sip my leftover bottle of Dharma water, and ponder the show for the rest of the day. Of course, Dharma labels were on 90% of the foodstuffs last night, including dozens of different, individually (re-)wrapped chocolates. Everyone was handed an Oceanic Flight 815 boarding pass upon arrival, and their names were crossed off from a wall which listed all the anticipated guests. I was reluctant to eat any of the biscuits with The Numbers carved into them, but eventually consumed #8, and I think #15 was left over at the end of the night - if that portends anything. The Clucky's chicken was ultra-yummy, the costumes were adorable, and the company grand. Thanks again to H & T for a wonderful send-off to this great show which has annoyed me and entertained me for such an epic run.

Hear, hear! Thanks, Heidi and Tom! Was grand fun.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-24-2010, 09:58 AM

I'm satisfied that, at the core, we were left with an essentially episodic world, populated by some interesting characters with some pretty complex emotions and motivations.

I'm unsatisfied that they set up a framework that promised to deliver something more overreaching than that. Something that offered a view on religion and a view on science that could have been interesting. Instead it felt like they gave up and resorted to hand waving, leaving a muddled, incomplete thought behind.

They knew they had solid characters and thought they could use that as a foundation for something grander. They never quite collected their thoughts enough to get there. Fortunately, they were still left with that solid foundation.

Cadaverous Pallor · 05-24-2010, 10:12 AM

Any pics of the party? If not, I want to hear more.

Costumes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSm

I both enjoyed it and get to be smug about it. I'm a happy ex-Lostian.

Hehe, I can dig that.

Pirate Bill · 05-24-2010, 10:51 AM

Am I the only one that was really annoyed by what seemed like extra commercial breaks? And yet when I do the math it had the typical amount of commercials (Actual running time: 105 minutes. A typical 1 hour show has a 42 min runtime. So 105 minutes would be right for a 2-1/2 hour block.) But boy, all the commercials were ruining the experience for me.

Maybe it's because a 1 hour show has a 7 act structure (with 5 breaks) while movies with no breaks have a 3 act structure. This was movie length with more breaks than I bothered to count. Structure? It was painful. I need to watch it again without all the breaks.

Other than that it was pretty satisfying. It seems like most of the mysteries have been left unsolved. Not that I need to have them all solved, but I mean, we still don't know MIB's name. But I seem to be okay with that.

The sideways world seemed a little bit too much like a reunion show. Lots of "good to see you again," and "you did great," and "I've missed you so much." It just seemed too meta. The flashes where they remembered their previous life were touching though.

I want to see the Hurley and Ben spin-off series.

05-24-2010, 08:29 AM	#2
Eliza Hodgkins 1812 Sputnik Sweetheart Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Long Beach Posts: 2,685	I think we are to assume that Desmond took Lockness Monster's boat, since he knew how to sail. I only wish the Island had been Limbo, as I think planned. Jack seeing his Dad, Locke being able to walk, Walt reading a comic that included a polar bear and essentially manifesting one, and the whispers (which reminded me of The Others), all seem to be evidence of this plan. Seems like the writers went out of their way to convince us otherwise when so many of us guessed that, creating a diversion that looks in retrospect like very bad writing. But I don't mind that the show was about flawed people coming together, forming various kinds of relationships, and coming to terms with themselves. Purpose of the show stays true but I maintain it would probably have worked better if they hadn't gone so far out of their way to tell it. Last edited by Eliza Hodgkins 1812 : 05-24-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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05-24-2010, 09:12 AM	#3
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	So much to post. Seems apparent that everyone who watched it now knows that the original idea was limbo, and when people called it on them they flinched. The really sh.tty thing is that in creating another reality that is then limbo, the TV show about the island is completely pointless. You could end ANY story with "and when they died eventually, either in the circumstance or long since, they all met up in the afterlife." The show could have been about anything, at all. Speaking of rendered pointless - as EH mentioned above, Shannon and Sayid?? What about Sayid and his amazing story of love in war torn Iraq? I always adored his backstory and to have that swept under the rug for bimbo Shannon is pathetic. I'm also annoyed that this "one true love" thing affects how we view Kate and Sawyer's relationship, which they again worked so hard to build up. When Kate and Jack separated I thought they made it abundantly clear that they weren't meant for each other. One could argue misdirection, but I argue lameness. Shannon and Boone get to take their bows, but not even a cameo from Michael and/or Walt. And what about Mr. Eko? If Rose weren't there you could practically accuse the writers of racism. I said to GD earlier that this show wrapped up the emotional side of the show but left the mental side untouched...but now I'm thinking that it wrapped up only certain aspects of the emotional side. It was incredible for the first two-thirds or so. All the flashing rememberances were so emotional, so real. As they flashed, we flashed, we remembered that we've been there, with them, for so long. For all the movie and literary references this show has brought to mind, I kept thinking of The Neverending Story last night - from breathlessly staying in touch with these characters to the world collapsing. I even turned to GD during the island destruction moments and said "It's The Nothing!" Seeing as how the cork/light etc remain wonderfully nebulous, "The Nothing" is an especially appropriate name. Still, Sun and Jin truly reunited, Hurley going to get Charlie, even Juliet and Sawyer (which I give credit to the actors for, as I had a hard time buying into them at all), and my God, the Charlie/Claire/Aaron part....such powerful stuff. Yeah, total sap for childbirth scenes now. I was laughing and BAWLING. Never mind that I adored them way back when and it's been so long!... Just thinking about it all, it's a rollercoaster. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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05-24-2010, 08:42 AM	#4
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Yeah, I think you guys are all right on with the shoulda-been-limbo-all-along argument. I was surprised how much I enjoyed the episode - I was right with it throughout the whole episode... right up until Jack opened the coffin in Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Chapel. At that moment, I knew what was going on - but I was in my head, grieving for that moment I'm not sure I'll ever get with my mom. (Side note - it was the anniversary of her death and I hadn't really processed that fact until that moment.) Pulled me out of the episode completely, so I'm not sure I've got a response to the series ending. It ended. They didn't answer stuff. I liked the emotional satisfaction. I feel kind of manipulated. But they focused on the characters, and since that was my biggest argument against the Jacob/Brother episode, I probably feel somewhat OK.
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05-24-2010, 09:15 AM	#5
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Here I was midway through Season 6 thinking the sideways was "The Last Temptation of Christ", when it turned out to be "Jacob's Ladder". __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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05-24-2010, 09:36 AM	#6
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Bwahaha. Oh, and I take back what I said about the inhabitants of cooperatively-created limbo. There were so many side characters from the Island there this season that it's obviously a catch-all limbo for ex-Islanders, and not at all created merely by people close to one another. Of course, CP is right that the show could have taken place anywhere, and I suppose I'm a bit disappointed that the Island didn't figure into anything but "stuff happened." But I've felt along that the story was just a bunch of stuff happening, cool stuff meant to perplex and confound and entertain and intrigue - - but never with any real "answers" or "solutions" ever conceived by the writers. It was all a fun detour of questions and mysteries taken from the limbo story first being told, and finally returned to at the end. I both enjoyed it and get to be smug about it. I'm a happy ex-Lostian. So now I'll sip my leftover bottle of Dharma water, and ponder the show for the rest of the day. Of course, Dharma labels were on 90% of the foodstuffs last night, including dozens of different, individually (re-)wrapped chocolates. Everyone was handed an Oceanic Flight 815 boarding pass upon arrival, and their names were crossed off from a wall which listed all the anticipated guests. I was reluctant to eat any of the biscuits with The Numbers carved into them, but eventually consumed #8, and I think #15 was left over at the end of the night - if that portends anything. The Clucky's chicken was ultra-yummy, the costumes were adorable, and the company grand. Thanks again to H & T for a wonderful send-off to this great show which has annoyed me and entertained me for such an epic run.
	Submit to Quotes

05-24-2010, 07:26 AM	#1
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I rather liked it, and not just because I was right all along. In that, the show was about a limbo of sorts. It was clearly about that in the first season, and clearly about that in the last. That they shifted the "location" of limbo from the island to a sideways universe does not change the story --- especially since they only thing they were able to "wrap up" was the limbo storyline -- while there was no wrap-up whatsoever of The Island. That didn't bother me. I don't much care which question is "answered" and which mystery is left unsolved. I like that the finale engendered a lot of conversation and theorizing at Heidi and Tom's most excellent Last Lost party. And unlike some of the recent episodes that were supposed to be emotionally affective (but did not hit me as such), this one packed a punch of strong feelings for me. I was a little meh about the demise of anti-locke, and of course revealing "the light" to be yet another set-piece ("the cork") was no revelation at all. But these were quibbles in an otherwise rather fine episode. The Christian religiosity certainly didn't bug me - - limbo and purgatory are essentially Christian concepts. Um, one question occurred to me - and maybe I just missed it: Did they show what became of Island Desmond after he was pulled out of the Cork Cave? I mean, Ben and Hugo team up for Lost, the Animated Series. Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Richard, Miles and Lapides escape on the plane. Jack dies. Did they ever show Desmond again? Did he just wander off into the woods? Did he have a delayed reaction time-shift that he was expecting? I think the limbo matrix co-created by the Losties would have seemed more plausible if it was just the tight group of Losties who had been through so much together. Bringing in Boon and Shannon and the neighbor's cat was a little silly, imo. So was Sayid and Shannon getting together for the afterlife, as if she were the love of his soul, instead of the quick fling they once shared (which, had it not been for their touch-flash, I would not have even remembered!) Quibbles and bits. I liked it. Christian Shepard's final appearance was a bit more powerful, experiencing it with two other people who have recently lost a parent. The writers couldn't have scripted that, but I think it infused the ending with a certain oomph for us. A surprising thumbs-up from me.
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05-24-2010, 09:58 AM	#8
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I'm satisfied that, at the core, we were left with an essentially episodic world, populated by some interesting characters with some pretty complex emotions and motivations. I'm unsatisfied that they set up a framework that promised to deliver something more overreaching than that. Something that offered a view on religion and a view on science that could have been interesting. Instead it felt like they gave up and resorted to hand waving, leaving a muddled, incomplete thought behind. They knew they had solid characters and thought they could use that as a foundation for something grander. They never quite collected their thoughts enough to get there. Fortunately, they were still left with that solid foundation. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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05-24-2010, 10:51 AM	#10
Pirate Bill Quality since 1973 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 473	Am I the only one that was really annoyed by what seemed like extra commercial breaks? And yet when I do the math it had the typical amount of commercials (Actual running time: 105 minutes. A typical 1 hour show has a 42 min runtime. So 105 minutes would be right for a 2-1/2 hour block.) But boy, all the commercials were ruining the experience for me. Maybe it's because a 1 hour show has a 7 act structure (with 5 breaks) while movies with no breaks have a 3 act structure. This was movie length with more breaks than I bothered to count. Structure? It was painful. I need to watch it again without all the breaks. Other than that it was pretty satisfying. It seems like most of the mysteries have been left unsolved. Not that I need to have them all solved, but I mean, we still don't know MIB's name. But I seem to be okay with that. The sideways world seemed a little bit too much like a reunion show. Lots of "good to see you again," and "you did great," and "I've missed you so much." It just seemed too meta. The flashes where they remembered their previous life were touching though. I want to see the Hurley and Ben spin-off series.
	Submit to Quotes