Schwarzeneggar Proposes to End HIV/AIDS Services - Page 8

lashbear · 06-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

in 2003, 63% of the budget was mandatory. Meaning that if the state government is functioning it is obligated to spend that much. This includes Prop 98 primary education funding, Medi-Cal, pensions, debt servicing, etc.

The remaining budget is discretionary: 2003 discretionary spending was:
Higher Education (UC and CSU) - $5.3b
Corrections - $5.2b
Health & Social Services - $12.9b
All other discretionary - $10.0b

I'm just shocked to see that Higher Education, Corrections ( take it this means correctional services like jail, and not a whole lot of tipp-ex), and Health & Social Services are not mandatory?!?! OK, so maybe universities could be in discretionary spending but Prisons & Health services and Social Services (this means welfare, yes?)

Something wrong there.

Chernabog · 06-08-2009, 08:59 AM

I wish the drug companies would step up in some way, but obviously that is too much to ask.

Maybe if we explained to them that their market is going to die and they'll make less money in the long run, their dollar signs would start flashing.

But that's rather doubtful too.

Alex · 06-08-2009, 09:22 AM

As an FYI, the California budget problems will be the topic on today's Talk of the Nation on NPR. It'll be interesting to see how this is playing to a national audience.

Alex · 06-08-2009, 05:50 PM

True, but the "functioning" threshold here is low. Meaning essentially it means: is not defaulting on its obligations (for some of the stuff) and has a legislated budget for the rest.

Though by another definition it is functioning perfectly. The California mess is exactly what the people of California has said over and over is what they want (well not explicitly but they keep rejecting anything that would prevent this result).

Alex · 06-08-2009, 05:57 PM

There is a growing movement for calling a constitutional convention which could theoretically redo the whole thing. That's not going to help with the current situation though.

Alex · 06-08-2009, 06:56 PM

Well, "mandatory" means that there are requirements beyond simply statutory budgeting negotiations that requires the spending. Contracts, the state constitution, etc.

The state constitution has explicit requirements on how much must be spent on certain types of education. Existing contracts require funding pensions at certain levels. Bonds issued have interest payment requirements, etc.

Prisons and universities and such are certainly mandatory from the electorate's point of view. There is just nothing outside the legislative process that dictates exactly how much must be spent.

So it is kind of like saying in your personal budget that the mortgage and electrical bill are mandatory budget items but food is discretionary. You're contractually obligated to spend certain amounts for your mortgage and electricity or go into default. Obviously you eating is mandatory, there's just nothing that says exactly how much you are required to spend doing so (food kitchen or 5-star dining both meed the mandatory part).

The breakdown of the analogy being that you can decide to default on the mortgage in favor of food and the repercussions are relatively minor (credit blemishes, you move into a small apartment in the bad part of town) but if the state government starts defaulting on these obligations the impacts are huge in terms of collateral damage (unfunded pensions means taking money out of people's pockets) and massively expensive (you can stop borrowing money; the state government can't -- even if the budget is balanced -- and so debt defaults will make the cost of future money go up dramatically).

Morrigoon · 06-09-2009, 01:32 AM

I cannot believe I'm saying this, but...

Perhaps Alex's suggestion of cutting short sentences for drug offenders and getting them out of the system is a good idea at this point.

Or perhaps offer a trade that requires them to agree to appear weekly at designated treatment programs (AA meetings, etc.) for the duration of their sentences in exchange for early release.

lashbear · 06-09-2009, 05:43 AM

I think they should up the tax on petrol so that you guys are paying the same as us (US$3.60 per Gallon) - that would clear the shortfall in no time !

Chernabog · 06-09-2009, 08:26 AM

I personally know a lot of people that are living happy, healthy, productive lives due to this program. None of those three adjectives would describe their lives if they were without meds. It is different here because we are talking about cutting medication which is literally life-saving. What kind of a government is this that effectively and knowingly kills it citizens?

innerSpaceman · 06-09-2009, 10:52 PM

Yeah, well the budget won't be decided until July 1 ... so please everyone call your elected Sacramento representatives to tell them to oppose cuts to these programs. Even reps who are opposed to the cuts need to be urged to make opposing them a top priority. If you're a supporter (or just wanna pretend to be one), it helps to let them know that your continued voting and financial support depends on their stance and strength of stance on this issue that is,for once, quite literally life and death.

06-08-2009, 08:59 AM	#2
Chernabog Biophage Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Moon Posts: 2,679	I wish the drug companies would step up in some way, but obviously that is too much to ask. Maybe if we explained to them that their market is going to die and they'll make less money in the long run, their dollar signs would start flashing. But that's rather doubtful too. __________________ And they say back then our universe Was a coal black egg Until the god inside Burst out and from its shattered shell He made what became the world we know ~ Bjork (Cosmogony)
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06-08-2009, 09:22 AM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	As an FYI, the California budget problems will be the topic on today's Talk of the Nation on NPR. It'll be interesting to see how this is playing to a national audience.
	Submit to Quotes

06-08-2009, 05:50 PM	#4
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	True, but the "functioning" threshold here is low. Meaning essentially it means: is not defaulting on its obligations (for some of the stuff) and has a legislated budget for the rest. Though by another definition it is functioning perfectly. The California mess is exactly what the people of California has said over and over is what they want (well not explicitly but they keep rejecting anything that would prevent this result).
	Submit to Quotes

06-08-2009, 05:57 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	There is a growing movement for calling a constitutional convention which could theoretically redo the whole thing. That's not going to help with the current situation though.
	Submit to Quotes

06-08-2009, 06:56 PM	#6
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Well, "mandatory" means that there are requirements beyond simply statutory budgeting negotiations that requires the spending. Contracts, the state constitution, etc. The state constitution has explicit requirements on how much must be spent on certain types of education. Existing contracts require funding pensions at certain levels. Bonds issued have interest payment requirements, etc. Prisons and universities and such are certainly mandatory from the electorate's point of view. There is just nothing outside the legislative process that dictates exactly how much must be spent. So it is kind of like saying in your personal budget that the mortgage and electrical bill are mandatory budget items but food is discretionary. You're contractually obligated to spend certain amounts for your mortgage and electricity or go into default. Obviously you eating is mandatory, there's just nothing that says exactly how much you are required to spend doing so (food kitchen or 5-star dining both meed the mandatory part). The breakdown of the analogy being that you can decide to default on the mortgage in favor of food and the repercussions are relatively minor (credit blemishes, you move into a small apartment in the bad part of town) but if the state government starts defaulting on these obligations the impacts are huge in terms of collateral damage (unfunded pensions means taking money out of people's pockets) and massively expensive (you can stop borrowing money; the state government can't -- even if the budget is balanced -- and so debt defaults will make the cost of future money go up dramatically).
	Submit to Quotes

06-09-2009, 01:32 AM	#7
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	I cannot believe I'm saying this, but... Perhaps Alex's suggestion of cutting short sentences for drug offenders and getting them out of the system is a good idea at this point. Or perhaps offer a trade that requires them to agree to appear weekly at designated treatment programs (AA meetings, etc.) for the duration of their sentences in exchange for early release. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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06-09-2009, 05:43 AM	#8
lashbear SwishBuckling Bear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In Isolation :) Posts: 6,597	I think they should up the tax on petrol so that you guys are paying the same as us (US$3.60 per Gallon) - that would clear the shortfall in no time ! __________________ *I Heart* my Husband - I can't think of anyone I'd rather be in isolation with.**
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06-09-2009, 08:26 AM	#9
Chernabog Biophage Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Moon Posts: 2,679	I personally know a lot of people that are living happy, healthy, productive lives due to this program. None of those three adjectives would describe their lives if they were without meds. It is different here because we are talking about cutting medication which is literally life-saving. What kind of a government is this that effectively and knowingly kills it citizens? __________________ And they say back then our universe Was a coal black egg Until the god inside Burst out and from its shattered shell He made what became the world we know ~ Bjork (Cosmogony)
	Submit to Quotes

06-09-2009, 10:52 PM	#10
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Yeah, well the budget won't be decided until July 1 ... so please everyone call your elected Sacramento representatives to tell them to oppose cuts to these programs. Even reps who are opposed to the cuts need to be urged to make opposing them a top priority. If you're a supporter (or just wanna pretend to be one), it helps to let them know that your continued voting and financial support depends on their stance and strength of stance on this issue that is,for once, quite literally life and death.
	Submit to Quotes