Nightastic! - Page 5

Alex · 06-15-2009, 03:54 PM

And I disagree. I think Peter Pan is popular precisely because it is old and the best of the old ones.

I explicitly didn't include Monsters, Inc., in the comparison. If a Peter Pan ride were opened today then I believe (as always with the subjective, IMO) it would have to be much more kinetic than it is to receive the same adoration it gets now.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd say that for most people this particular group of people interacts with regularly on matters Disney, nostalgia is driving a significant portion of appreciation. But I think it leads to an overestimation of how well old ideas, generally recreated today, would do (and I know that nothing Morrigoon said necessarily was a description of such, just rambling).

Morrigoon · 06-15-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

And I disagree. I think Peter Pan is popular precisely because it is old and the best of the old ones.

I explicitly didn't include Monsters, Inc., in the comparison. If a Peter Pan ride were opened today then I believe (as always with the subjective, IMO) it would have to be much more kinetic than it is to receive the same adoration it gets now.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd say that for most people this particular group of people interacts with regularly on matters Disney, nostalgia is driving a significant portion of appreciation. But I think it leads to an overestimation of how well old ideas, generally recreated today, would do (and I know that nothing Morrigoon said necessarily was a description of such, just rambling).

I think you're on to something there. If built today (as it probably is, in the newer parks, but I'm not going to the trouble of looking it up now), I would expect Peter Pan to have better animatronics and a smoother ride system. Other than that, though, I think the ride holds up well.

Morrigoon · 06-15-2009, 03:56 PM

People like flying cars. (or pirate ships) They can't help themselves. And the bit flying over London is magical.

I like Monsters, but there are parts of that ride that bother me. Mostly, the end with the CDA and all the tarps. But again, that's because there's very little in that scene besides a bunch of tarps and an animatronic with a fan. The scene in Harryhausen's, by contrast, is alive with fine details. Actually, most of Monsters is great, but the weak finale weakens the overall impression of the ride.

innerSpaceman · 06-15-2009, 04:14 PM

I don't know what nostalgia factor Alex is on about. The tykes who love Peter Pan have no idea it wasn't built in 1998, nor any clue that the movie it's based wasn't released direct to home video in 1986.

It's beloved because it's a flying ride.

I'll grant that if it had competition, that might be another story. If there were an Aladdin flying carpet ride over Agrabah, an UP ride over Paraside Plateau, and a Dumbo ride soarin' over Florida all giving Peter Pan a run for its money, the populariy of the Pan ride might be less.

But while it's the only flying game in town, it remains arguably the most popular ride in Disneyland. Well, at least the most difficult ticket.

lashbear · 06-15-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I don't know what nostalgia factor Alex is on about. The tykes who love Peter Pan have no idea it wasn't built in 1998, nor any clue that the movie it's based wasn't released direct to home video in 1986.

It's beloved because it's a flying ride.

I'll grant that if it had competition, that might be another story. If there were an Aladdin flying carpet ride over Agrabah, an UP ride over Paraside Plateau, and a Dumbo ride soarin' over Florida all giving Peter Pan a run for its money, the populariy of the Pan ride might be less.

But while it's the only flying game in town, it remains arguably the most popular ride in Disneyland. Well, at least the most difficult ticket.

What He Said !!

Peter Pan was the one that always fascinated me most because you flew over the sets.

Ghoulish Delight · 06-15-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I don't know what nostalgia factor Alex is on about. The tykes who love Peter Pan have no idea it wasn't built in 1998, nor any clue that the movie it's based wasn't released direct to home video in 1986.

At least some percentage of those tykes are influenced by the encouragement and excitement of their parents. If the parent is thrilled to be sitting next to their 2 year old on their favorite ride, the odds of that 2 year old being happy go up. If the parent is sitting in a wiggling honey pot rolling their eyes and generally not being as excited as they are on a flying pirate ship, that 2 year old is less likely to enjoy it.

innerSpaceman · 06-15-2009, 04:48 PM

Really? So why are 2-year-olds screaming in terror during that Haunted Mansion ride their parents so obviously enjoy?

Could it be because that attraction's sometimes creepy tone is not appropriate for all children? Perhaps. But if so, then parental enjoyment of a notalgic experience is hardly the only criteria for passing that enjoyment to the child.

Please tell me with a straight face flying has nothing to do with a child's delight with the Peter Pan ride.

Alex · 06-15-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Please tell me with a straight face flying has nothing to do with a child's delight with the Peter Pan ride.

Of course children are truly enchanted. But I'm not talking about the perception of children. Of course children don't have a sense of nostalgia. To fling back some sarcasm, exactly how big of an idiot do you think I am that you seriously suppose I claim that young children are suffering an excess of nostalgia?

The perception of the child is, however, for many the seedbed of the nostalgia I'm talking about. It is my claim that for the adults (on average as a group) who love Peter Pan it is the nostalgia factor, the fact that it's old, that it speaks to them -- if not to a ride they experienced when young then to a quaintness of 1950's "wow." If Peter Pan, exactly as it is today, were to open for the first time this Saturday, it is my contention that most adults who love it now would be unimpressed.

Children, I agree, would continue to react very much as they do now.

And it is all a purely academic discussion since it posits a test that can't possibly be constructed beyond the fact that a dark ride (Pooh), very much on par with other Fantasyland dark rides (though not necessarily Peter Pan which does have an added hook) is widely regarded as vastly inferior to Snow White or Pinocchio).

Ghoulish Delight · 06-15-2009, 04:50 PM

Jesus, is the hostility really necessary? Really?

Strangler Lewis · 06-15-2009, 04:52 PM

I thought Winnie-the-Pooh was quite pleasantly air conditioned.

06-15-2009, 03:54 PM	#1
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	And I disagree. I think Peter Pan is popular precisely because it is old and the best of the old ones. I explicitly didn't include Monsters, Inc., in the comparison. If a Peter Pan ride were opened today then I believe (as always with the subjective, IMO) it would have to be much more kinetic than it is to receive the same adoration it gets now. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd say that for most people this particular group of people interacts with regularly on matters Disney, nostalgia is driving a significant portion of appreciation. But I think it leads to an overestimation of how well old ideas, generally recreated today, would do (and I know that nothing Morrigoon said necessarily was a description of such, just rambling).
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06-15-2009, 03:56 PM	#3
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	People like flying cars. (or pirate ships) They can't help themselves. And the bit flying over London is magical. I like Monsters, but there are parts of that ride that bother me. Mostly, the end with the CDA and all the tarps. But again, that's because there's very little in that scene besides a bunch of tarps and an animatronic with a fan. The scene in Harryhausen's, by contrast, is alive with fine details. Actually, most of Monsters is great, but the weak finale weakens the overall impression of the ride. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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06-15-2009, 04:14 PM	#4
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I don't know what nostalgia factor Alex is on about. The tykes who love Peter Pan have no idea it wasn't built in 1998, nor any clue that the movie it's based wasn't released direct to home video in 1986. It's beloved because it's a flying ride. I'll grant that if it had competition, that might be another story. If there were an Aladdin flying carpet ride over Agrabah, an UP ride over Paraside Plateau, and a Dumbo ride soarin' over Florida all giving Peter Pan a run for its money, the populariy of the Pan ride might be less. But while it's the only flying game in town, it remains arguably the most popular ride in Disneyland. Well, at least the most difficult ticket.
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06-15-2009, 04:48 PM	#7
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Really? So why are 2-year-olds screaming in terror during that Haunted Mansion ride their parents so obviously enjoy? Could it be because that attraction's sometimes creepy tone is not appropriate for all children? Perhaps. But if so, then parental enjoyment of a notalgic experience is hardly the only criteria for passing that enjoyment to the child. Please tell me with a straight face flying has nothing to do with a child's delight with the Peter Pan ride.
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06-15-2009, 04:50 PM	#9
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Jesus, is the hostility really necessary? Really? __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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06-15-2009, 04:52 PM	#10
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	I thought Winnie-the-Pooh was quite pleasantly air conditioned. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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