People of WalMart - Page 3

Cadaverous Pallor · 08-28-2009, 08:44 AM

Agreed that most of these people are sad products of sad families, sad education, and sad circumstances. Sorry if I offended anyone.

When I look at those I mostly think "there but for the grace of God go I", which is why it's rather painful to look at. I'm probably more guilty than many of being embarrassed by my somewhat poor roots and somewhat uncouth upbringing. I can't take all the credit for the changes in my life but I know that it was only because I wanted to step up that I actually did. I have relatives who have never done well and I have to say that I think they could if they actually tried. (Just like LSPE I want to keep my personal life out of it but it ends up being integral to the conversation anyway.)

Overriding sentiment is this - we don't know these people and their circumstances so I should probably just shut up now.

BarTopDancer · 08-28-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3894

I feel guilty about talking about this stuff on this board. It's not swanky.

Don't. It's important that we think outside of our little ethnocentric bubble.

We truly are a very lucky group. Despite job loss, recession, cut hours, blah blah, bad economy we haven't had anyone lose their home, be threatened with homelessness or have to make significant changes to their lifestyle.

We need to remember that not everyone is as fortunate as us.

Alex · 08-28-2009, 09:19 AM

See, for me it isn't just the making fun of them for being different that I find bothersome but rather the assumption that they must either be very unhappy the way they are and unable/unwilling to change or too stupid/inbred to be aware they should be unhappy that I find bothersome.

It doesn't matter at all why these people look the way they do. Yes, with more money they might buy nicer clothes but it very well might be a more expensive baseball cap with a more expensive timber wolf t-shirt to go with their work boots and old jeans. They might actually like scruffy mustaches and mullets. The core is still pointing at someone and laughing at them for not conforming to the way we think they should. I know extremely wealthy people who use their money to buy only the finest in sports jerseys as their daily sartorial selection. I'd never do that (and yes, I'm not a saint, I've made fun of it) but I don't make broad socioeconomic assumptions about people who do.

It grates on me similarly to when people assume saying "axe" instead of "ask" is a sign of ignorance.

And that's pretty rude (especially when they're put on display on the internet while those laughing at them get to be anonymous) regardless of the socioeconomic reasons they look different. Seems little different to me than if I were to start posting pictures of the Indians in my neighborhood and making snide comments about those wacky saris and all the jewelry the men wear.

(All of this said, again, with the caveat that I haven't actually seen any -- but one -- of the pictures posted to the WalMart web site. This is more a response to this thread and the genre of Web site in general.)

LSPoorEeyorick · 08-28-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

See, for me it isn't just the making fun of them for being different that I find bothersome but rather the assumption that they must either be very unhappy the way they are and unable/unwilling to change or too stupid/inbred to be aware they should be unhappy that I find bothersome.

This is a fair point, Alex. I didn't mean to imply with my personal anecdote that my uncle's struggle is the case for all people, or that it's not OK to wear a John Deere cap unironically. In general, I agree with you - that genre of website makes my skin crawl.

JWBear · 08-28-2009, 09:38 AM

Poverty does not always mean the person must dress poorly or have poor hygiene. My father grew up on a farm during the depression in conditions of poverty that would be inconceivable to those Walmart shoppers. His parents had 8 children, half of whom died in childhood. He never lived in a house with electricity or plumbing until he and my mother married. My grandparents continued to live without electricity and plumbing until 1950, when my father built them a new house "in town". Looking at old family pictures you see my father and his siblings in clean mended clothes. My Grandmother was always in nice crisp dresses; and I am quite sure she would be horrified to see any of her family going out in public dressed slovenly.

Likewise, I've seen people with tons of money who dress like some of the people in those pictures.

Poverty and the lack of care in your appearance are two separate things.

Andrew · 08-28-2009, 09:50 AM

Apparently I must spread some Mojo around before giving it to JWBear again.

LSPoorEeyorick · 08-28-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear

Poverty does not always mean the person must dress poorly or have poor hygiene. ...He never lived in a house with electricity or plumbing until he and my mother married.... Poverty and the lack of care in your appearance are two separate things.

Similarly, my mother grew up in a house without bathrooms, and she didn't have one until she left home. She got two dresses a year growing up, and her mother always kept them neat and clean.

But times are different now than they were in 1950. The mass-manufacturing of clothing and food has left many of us without the skills they had in the depression. Are you able to grow your own food? Are you able to sew your own clothing? Could you go completely off the grid? If you could, that's awesome, and I kind of envy you.

I'm not saying the dude with the completely ripped shirt falls in this category - yeah, obviously that's some sort of statement. There are some obviously ridiculous photos. But I'm not seeing a lot of poor hygiene in those pictures. I'm seeing some slovenly dress, but what's the problem here?

JWBear · 08-28-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Similarly, my mother grew up in a house without bathrooms, and she didn't have one until she left home. She got two dresses a year growing up, and her mother always kept them neat and clean.

But times are different now than they were in 1950. The mass-manufacturing of clothing and food has left many of us without the skills they had in the depression. Are you able to grow your own food? Are you able to sew your own clothing? Could you go completely off the grid? If you could, that's awesome, and I kind of envy you.

I'm not saying the dude with the completely ripped shirt falls in this category - yeah, obviously that's some sort of statement. There are some obviously ridiculous photos. But I'm not seeing a lot of poor hygiene in those pictures. I'm seeing some slovenly dress, but what's the problem here?

No, I can not make my own clothes from scratch... But I can (and do) repair the ones I have.

My whole point was to say that you can not assume someone is poor just because they dress badly - or that all poor people necessarily dress that way.

Gemini Cricket · 08-28-2009, 12:14 PM

A couple of things:

1. Isn't saying "aw, look at those poor people" as much of a judgment as saying "omg, look at what those people are wearing"?

2. Everything can be analyzed until all of the humor is sucked out of it. And if we try to find meaning, hidden depth in every single thing then the life can be sucked out of us too.

3. I think it's okay to laugh at someone else as long as that laugh doesn't turn into harsh, solidified, unmoved judgment and heartlessness.

4. I have learned that when my happy mood changes because of someone else's point of view that it has more to do with me and my insecurities than the other person.

5. Would I laugh at the People of Castro Street where different gay men and women were highlighted based upon stereotypes? Well, it would depend upon if it was funny or not. This is why South Park gets kudos from me time and time again, their shït is funny.

LSPoorEeyorick · 08-28-2009, 10:05 AM

I love humor, SM. I really do. I'm not trying to be a killjoy.

But I think my problem here is privilege. The comments in this thread seemed laden with socioeconomic privilege. I'm not going to try to apply the terms of racism to classism, but it seems to me that when someone who has lots of options makes fun of someone who doesn't, that's lame.

08-28-2009, 08:44 AM	#1
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	Agreed that most of these people are sad products of sad families, sad education, and sad circumstances. Sorry if I offended anyone. When I look at those I mostly think "there but for the grace of God go I", which is why it's rather painful to look at. I'm probably more guilty than many of being embarrassed by my somewhat poor roots and somewhat uncouth upbringing. I can't take all the credit for the changes in my life but I know that it was only because I wanted to step up that I actually did. I have relatives who have never done well and I have to say that I think they could if they actually tried. (Just like LSPE I want to keep my personal life out of it but it ends up being integral to the conversation anyway.) Overriding sentiment is this - we don't know these people and their circumstances so I should probably just shut up now. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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08-28-2009, 09:19 AM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	See, for me it isn't just the making fun of them for being different that I find bothersome but rather the assumption that they must either be very unhappy the way they are and unable/unwilling to change or too stupid/inbred to be aware they should be unhappy that I find bothersome. It doesn't matter at all why these people look the way they do. Yes, with more money they might buy nicer clothes but it very well might be a more expensive baseball cap with a more expensive timber wolf t-shirt to go with their work boots and old jeans. They might actually like scruffy mustaches and mullets. The core is still pointing at someone and laughing at them for not conforming to the way we think they should. I know extremely wealthy people who use their money to buy only the finest in sports jerseys as their daily sartorial selection. I'd never do that (and yes, I'm not a saint, I've made fun of it) but I don't make broad socioeconomic assumptions about people who do. It grates on me similarly to when people assume saying "axe" instead of "ask" is a sign of ignorance. And that's pretty rude (especially when they're put on display on the internet while those laughing at them get to be anonymous) regardless of the socioeconomic reasons they look different. Seems little different to me than if I were to start posting pictures of the Indians in my neighborhood and making snide comments about those wacky saris and all the jewelry the men wear. (All of this said, again, with the caveat that I haven't actually seen any -- but one -- of the pictures posted to the WalMart web site. This is more a response to this thread and the genre of Web site in general.)
	Submit to Quotes

08-28-2009, 09:38 AM	#5
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	Poverty does not always mean the person must dress poorly or have poor hygiene. My father grew up on a farm during the depression in conditions of poverty that would be inconceivable to those Walmart shoppers. His parents had 8 children, half of whom died in childhood. He never lived in a house with electricity or plumbing until he and my mother married. My grandparents continued to live without electricity and plumbing until 1950, when my father built them a new house "in town". Looking at old family pictures you see my father and his siblings in clean mended clothes. My Grandmother was always in nice crisp dresses; and I am quite sure she would be horrified to see any of her family going out in public dressed slovenly. Likewise, I've seen people with tons of money who dress like some of the people in those pictures. Poverty and the lack of care in your appearance are two separate things. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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08-28-2009, 09:50 AM	#6
Andrew Making Good Girls Go Bad Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 734	Apparently I must spread some Mojo around before giving it to JWBear again. __________________ -- Andrew Just Andrew. Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. (I am large, I contain multitudes.) -- Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
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08-28-2009, 12:14 PM	#9
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	A couple of things: 1. Isn't saying "aw, look at those poor people" as much of a judgment as saying "omg, look at what those people are wearing"? 2. Everything can be analyzed until all of the humor is sucked out of it. And if we try to find meaning, hidden depth in every single thing then the life can be sucked out of us too. 3. I think it's okay to laugh at someone else as long as that laugh doesn't turn into harsh, solidified, unmoved judgment and heartlessness. 4. I have learned that when my happy mood changes because of someone else's point of view that it has more to do with me and my insecurities than the other person. 5. Would I laugh at the People of Castro Street where different gay men and women were highlighted based upon stereotypes? Well, it would depend upon if it was funny or not. This is why South Park gets kudos from me time and time again, their shït is funny.
	Submit to Quotes

08-28-2009, 10:05 AM	#10
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	I love humor, SM. I really do. I'm not trying to be a killjoy. But I think my problem here is privilege. The comments in this thread seemed laden with socioeconomic privilege. I'm not going to try to apply the terms of racism to classism, but it seems to me that when someone who has lots of options makes fun of someone who doesn't, that's lame.
	Submit to Quotes