Daily Kos/Research 2000 Poll of Self-Identified Republicans

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Alex

How do you know there isn't a leprechaun behind you?

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

I pretty much assume someone isn't a racist until evidence is presented to me that they are.

I'm also "not sure" the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning.

No, I am not asking you to prove a negative......the evidence is already there. Obama was a long time follower of a man who was a screaming hater of Whites(literally).

He took his two young daughters to see this lunatic every(or near every) Sunday......who would subject their own children to racist rhetoric unless they sympathized with that rhetoric?

And it was only when Obama was slipping in the polls that he came out against him...how convenient .........so the question remains, how do you know he's not a racist?

He says he's not vs actions that suggest otherwise.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

And it was only when Obama was slipping in the polls that he came out against him...how convenient .........so the question remains, how do you know he's not a racist?

I don't. That said, if he is one he has done such a masterful job of hiding it that it becomes irrelevant. I don't care what's in his heart, I care what he does and so far, other than listening to someone who says questionable things (I grew up with a very racist grandfather and I never called him out on it either and if I had kids I'd still take them to see him -- if he were alive) I've seen no evidence to suggest Obama is racist in any way that matters.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Alex

. I don't care what's in his heart, I care what he does and so far, other than listening to someone who says questionable things (I grew up with a very racist grandfather and I never called him out on it either and if I had kids I'd still take them to see him -- if he were alive) I've seen no evidence to suggest Obama is racist in any way that matters.

Would it be fair to say then that the Daily kos poll should have asked "Does Obama do racist things?"

I submit that had they asked the question that way Republicans would have overwhelming responded ......"no"

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Would it be fair to say then that the Daily kos poll should have asked "Does Obama do racist things?"

I submit that had they asked the question that way Republicans would have overwhelming responded ......"no"

That is a much better question - and I hope you're right.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Would it be fair to say then that the Daily kos poll should have asked "Does Obama do racist things?"

I submit that had they asked the question that way Republicans would have overwhelming responded ......"no"

No, I don't agree necessarily. If they don't believe that he does racist things I don't see how they could possibly answer yes to believing he is racist.

[flippyshark]

Sorry, sleepyjeff, but, as insane as Reverend Wright's sermons (at least as excerpted in the media) may be, they aren't racist. Essentially, he rails on the government, which in his eyes has not atoned for the evils of slavery and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His message in the most famous sermon clip was that we don't have God's favor because we haven't acknowledged these crimes in our own past. His use of the phrase "God Damn America" was intended to sound shocking and it did. But, not a word about white people being inherently evil or inferior. (Yes, it's implicit that those bad things were done by the white people in charge, which is hard to deny.) Not a rational or useful view to my mind, but not "hate whitey" talk either. It's hardly any different than Jerry Falwell's famous on-air contention that God had lifted his hand of protection from us because of the ACLU and feminists and so on. (actually, Falwell's strikes me as miles more stupid. At least slavery really is factually an atrocity - so are the mass bombings of civilians in Japan, to my mind, though I know some would argue that those actions prevented more deaths than they caused - that's another conversation.)

Barack Obama was born into a world where black Americans did not yet have equal rights. Of course the political discourse in the black community still carries that baggage, with resentments, mistrust and suspicions that make perfect sense to the people who were until so recently second-class citizens. Of course sermons in black churches reflect this. It would be really surprising if they didn't.

It has never been shown that Obama attended this particular sermon, but it seems reasonable to guess that he heard plenty of this sort of "evil government" rhetoric in church and in his community. So did I. My father gave it to me every day, just from a white Evangelical point of view. He's not a racist either, by the way. And he loves America, passionately. But he thinks the government is evil to this day. (In his mind, the great atrocity is legalized abortion.) He's not crazy. He has strong beliefs that offend some other citizens. I sat through tons of church services loaded with this kind of talk.

I read Obama's memoir well before he won the nomination, and he talks plenty about the various ideas about race he encountered growing up. It sounds as though he filtered it all and gave it rational consideration, just like I did to all the ugly and stupid things I was told day in and day out. If I remember correctly, he credited Pastor Wright with enlightening him about civil rights ideas we do not now find at all controversial. Wright is certainly a provocateur, but racist? I'm not convinced. (And no, I don't count his joke about how white people can't keep rhythm on the off beat - that's not racist, it's too often sadly true - and would be perfectly acceptable if it was pointed out by a black comic.)

Even if it could be shown that Wright really thinks whites are devils, it doesn't prove a thing about Obama. It's a really old talking point that didn't fly during the presidential campaign and doesn't make any sense now.

[flippyshark]

To your point about Obama's eventual parting of ways with Wright, that was an uncomfortable situation that I agree looked bad for Barack. Immediately after the YouTube frenzy over the big bad sermon, Barack tried to downplay the whole thing by comparing Wright to the sort of crazy uncle that every family has. And indeed, when he later made the break complete, it seemed like the politics of convenience because it was.Wright was an important person in Obama's circle, but he was also an embarrassment, so there was really no way that could ever have ended well. It seems to me that Obama put off an uncomfortable situation until it was no longer avoidable. (a trait it could be argued he still displays) I don't know what a perfect handling of this situation would have looked like. If I ever run for office, which will never happen, there are people in my circle who might make me look bad by association - I know a handful of radicals who mean business, at least one of whom is in jail - we're all linked to some highly interesting people. Heck, look at this very community we are having this conversation in right now!

[sleepyjeff]

Well stated....I am still "not sure", but am glad many of you are

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Well stated....I am still "not sure", but am glad many of you are

So would it be correct that you're essentially unsure whether anybody is a racist?

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Alex

So would it be correct that you're essentially unsure whether anybody is a racist?

That would be correct.