Terrorist attacks in London - Page 3

Moonliner · 07-07-2005, 01:03 PM

While my heart goes out to those effected by today’s criminal acts I can't help but think, Is that it?? Four years since 9/11 and all they can come up with is four backpack bombs? That's an average of one a year. I can't say that I feel particularly terrorized. In fact I think it shows how weak support for these radicals really is.

Name · 07-07-2005, 01:15 PM

Shockingly, I actually almost see a little brilliance in Bush's unconcern of Bin Laden. Make him a small player that you don't care about, and show his attempts of terror are not effective, and that him and his name hold no weight in day to day activities, and he may eventually give up. He may become pissed, and try harder to be put in the spotlight, but keep ignoring him and he may just give up.(not likely, but could happen, and I could win the lottery too). But I do think that the greatest weapon we have against terrorism, is realizing that there are people that will use this tactic, and just be prepared for death at every hour of our lives. After all, it worked great for the Samarai warriors of Japan, and I think that it would help us all live more fulfilled lives. We are already dead anyway, its just a matter of when and how. So screw the cowardly terrorists, I refuse to live in fear.

€uroMeinke · 07-07-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Name

But I do think that the greatest weapon we have against terrorism, is realizing that there are people that will use this tactic, and just be prepared for death at every hour of our lives. After all, it worked great for the Samarai warriors of Japan, and I think that it would help us all live more fulfilled lives. We are already dead anyway, its just a matter of when and how. So screw the cowardly terrorists, I refuse to live in fear.

Brilliant! - I envison an army Swank Samari, nowwork this into my hedon theory...

Jazzman · 07-07-2005, 11:57 PM

For the moment I'm resisting getting into the politics of this discussion out of respect for the fact that right now there are hundreds of people in London who are injured or dying, despairing and searching for missing loved ones, and generally hurting. Just as we all were four years ago. I just want to send them as many prayers, thoughts, good vibes and positive waves that I can manage. Debates will undoubtedly rage in the weeks to come, but for now I just want to offer them the same sentiment that they offered us when we were in their place:

Today we are all English.

Prudence · 07-07-2005, 02:22 PM

I've been pondering all morning and into the afternoon.

These events bring out the worst in me and I vacillate between hiding the unflattering thoughts deep down where no one will see them but they fester and breed, or shining the bright light of exposure on them so that hopefully they will, like a nest of cockroaches, flee into the night.

Today I sided with the cockroach approach. Which means that I'm going to say the things I don't like to admit that I sometimes think. The things that are hurtful and offensive and that I don't WANT to think. And it's selfish of me to even say them, because it's for my own benefit -- to confront the cockroach thoughts in public in the hopes that I can see them for what they are and banish them with mental Raid.

For example:

As I stood in the shower this morning, I found myself thinking that internment camps sounded like a good idea. Not that I actually in my rational brain think that this is good. Or even in my usual empathetic "let's all hug a tree and then go embrace our neighbors' differences" brain. But the deep down reptilian part of my brain said "F*ck 'em all. They're not like me, they don't like me, they never will like me or be like me, they want to eliminate me and everything I hold dear, and they'd be lucky to end up in Gitmo instead of dead at my feet."

And I hate those thoughts. And I hate myself for thinking those thoughts. And I hate people that encourage me to think those thoughts.

It's a frustration for me. Like many flag-wrapped Americans, I, too, want to know where the condemnation is on the part of mainstream Muslims. I watched the 30 days episode with a redneck southerner livining 30 days as a Muslim. I heard the one man say that he won't apologize for what a handful of Muslims do because he's not responsible for their actions. But the voice in my head responded: "And yet you want to hold me responsible for the Crusades, which happened hundreds of years before my birth?"

Because part of me does believe that average, run-of-the-mill Muslims give an internal cheer for terrorist acts. Not a rational part, but a part nonetheless. Part of me does look at passers-by with suspicion and the nagging thought that they probably do want to exterminate me and impose their religious laws on my country. Part of me suspects that those people I see in the hallway at work every day are really more loyal to their ethnic homeland than to the USA, and that if push came to shove they'd shout "Death to America!" with the rest.

And it's not fair to the people around me. What, exactly, would it take for me to believe that they weren't terrorist sympathizers? A full page NY Times ad? Sousa marches on their car stereos? "USA!" chants at ball games? An H2 in every driveway?

I have the benefit of looking back on the Japanese internment camps as part of history and knowing that it was the wrong action to take. Of knowing that those Japanese-American families were not secretly rooting for the Emperor and hoping for a US defeat. Of seeing the horrible photos of families leaving houses they once owned, leaving lives they'd earned, and living as prisoners of war in their own country. I've had the opportunity to read the rationalizations -- conditions aren't that bad, for their own protection -- and the blatant racisim from national leaders of the time.

And then I examine my own thoughts and I'm no better than my ancestors. I see a culture I don't understand and I see some members of that culture attack mine, and I don't know how I'm supposed to tell the difference between potential attackers and law-abiding citizens. All of it looks foreign and foreign = suspicious. And suspicious = better safe than sorry. I'm scared of them, I'm scared of myself, and I'm scared for future generations.

And my own selfish, reprehensible, rascist inner turmoil is nothing compared to loss of life. But damn the terrorists for feeding my internal monster. Damn them for promoting fear for fear's sake. Damn them for promoting eternal reward as a justification for present pain. Damn them for using the powerless in their own power grab. And damn them to the deepest hell for every husband, wife, mother, father, sister, brother, and child who cries themselves to sleep as tears overflow the holes in their hearts.

Name · 07-07-2005, 02:23 PM

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow you may very well be dead

Morrigoon · 07-07-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vB

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Prudence again.

That pretty much sums it up. We think this, then feel guilty for thinking it because we know it's wrong, then feel confusion because we don't have a better answer, so we're left with no answer at all rather than the really bad answer.

Ghoulish Delight · 07-07-2005, 04:06 PM

fyi...

Quote:

Originally Posted by msnbc.com

People seeking information on Americans believed to have been in London at the time of the attacks were urged to call 1-888-407-4747 (toll-free in the U.S.) or 1-202-501-4444 (regular toll line from outside the U.S. and Canada).

scaeagles · 07-07-2005, 04:39 PM

Prudence led me down a different train of thought with her "inner monster" idea.

While not the reason we went into Iraq, the Iraq insurgency is, in fact, run by and fought by terrorists. The terrorists obviously do not understand the majority of citizens in the US or Great Britain.

The fact is, that until the speech by Bush a few days ago, support was waning among the American populace. I believe that Americans know who is fighting us in Iraq at present. I believe that attacks such as this are a reminder that terrorists are in it for the long haul. I believe 9/11 is a distant and fading memory to many Americans, and I believe that Americans wish to live at peace with everyone.

However, attacks like this and the Madrid bombing only serve to freshen in the minds the feelings of horror of what terrorist attacks are. It strengthens the resolve rather than weakening it. I do not think that Americans or Brits are prone to backing down.

MickeyLumbo · 07-07-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

fyi...
fyi...

Quote:
Originally Posted by msnbc.com
People seeking information on Americans believed to have been in London at the time of the attacks were urged to call 1-888-407-4747 (toll-free in the U.S.) or 1-202-501-4444 (regular toll line from outside the U.S. and Canada).

__________________

one American closest to this mornings first blast was Rudolph Gulianni, one block away.

07-07-2005, 01:03 PM	#1
Moonliner 8/30/14 - Disneyland -10k or Bust. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,022	While my heart goes out to those effected by today’s criminal acts I can't help but think, Is that it?? Four years since 9/11 and all they can come up with is four backpack bombs? That's an average of one a year. I can't say that I feel particularly terrorized. In fact I think it shows how weak support for these radicals really is. __________________ - Taking it one step at a time.
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07-07-2005, 01:15 PM	#2
Name Title Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: here Posts: 779	Shockingly, I actually almost see a little brilliance in Bush's unconcern of Bin Laden. Make him a small player that you don't care about, and show his attempts of terror are not effective, and that him and his name hold no weight in day to day activities, and he may eventually give up. He may become pissed, and try harder to be put in the spotlight, but keep ignoring him and he may just give up.(not likely, but could happen, and I could win the lottery too). But I do think that the greatest weapon we have against terrorism, is realizing that there are people that will use this tactic, and just be prepared for death at every hour of our lives. After all, it worked great for the Samarai warriors of Japan, and I think that it would help us all live more fulfilled lives. We are already dead anyway, its just a matter of when and how. So screw the cowardly terrorists, I refuse to live in fear. __________________ Signature
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07-07-2005, 11:57 PM	#4
Jazzman Sax God Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Portland's Tijuana Posts: 510	For the moment I'm resisting getting into the politics of this discussion out of respect for the fact that right now there are hundreds of people in London who are injured or dying, despairing and searching for missing loved ones, and generally hurting. Just as we all were four years ago. I just want to send them as many prayers, thoughts, good vibes and positive waves that I can manage. Debates will undoubtedly rage in the weeks to come, but for now I just want to offer them the same sentiment that they offered us when we were in their place: Today we are all English.
	Submit to Quotes

07-07-2005, 02:22 PM	#5
Prudence Beelzeboobs, Esq. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gavel - I haz it Posts: 6,287	I've been pondering all morning and into the afternoon. These events bring out the worst in me and I vacillate between hiding the unflattering thoughts deep down where no one will see them but they fester and breed, or shining the bright light of exposure on them so that hopefully they will, like a nest of cockroaches, flee into the night. Today I sided with the cockroach approach. Which means that I'm going to say the things I don't like to admit that I sometimes think. The things that are hurtful and offensive and that I don't WANT to think. And it's selfish of me to even say them, because it's for my own benefit -- to confront the cockroach thoughts in public in the hopes that I can see them for what they are and banish them with mental Raid. For example: As I stood in the shower this morning, I found myself thinking that internment camps sounded like a good idea. Not that I actually in my rational brain think that this is good. Or even in my usual empathetic "let's all hug a tree and then go embrace our neighbors' differences" brain. But the deep down reptilian part of my brain said "F*ck 'em all. They're not like me, they don't like me, they never will like me or be like me, they want to eliminate me and everything I hold dear, and they'd be lucky to end up in Gitmo instead of dead at my feet." And I hate those thoughts. And I hate myself for thinking those thoughts. And I hate people that encourage me to think those thoughts. It's a frustration for me. Like many flag-wrapped Americans, I, too, want to know where the condemnation is on the part of mainstream Muslims. I watched the 30 days episode with a redneck southerner livining 30 days as a Muslim. I heard the one man say that he won't apologize for what a handful of Muslims do because he's not responsible for their actions. But the voice in my head responded: "And yet you want to hold me responsible for the Crusades, which happened hundreds of years before my birth?" Because part of me does believe that average, run-of-the-mill Muslims give an internal cheer for terrorist acts. Not a rational part, but a part nonetheless. Part of me does look at passers-by with suspicion and the nagging thought that they probably do want to exterminate me and impose their religious laws on my country. Part of me suspects that those people I see in the hallway at work every day are really more loyal to their ethnic homeland than to the USA, and that if push came to shove they'd shout "Death to America!" with the rest. And it's not fair to the people around me. What, exactly, would it take for me to believe that they weren't terrorist sympathizers? A full page NY Times ad? Sousa marches on their car stereos? "USA!" chants at ball games? An H2 in every driveway? I have the benefit of looking back on the Japanese internment camps as part of history and knowing that it was the wrong action to take. Of knowing that those Japanese-American families were not secretly rooting for the Emperor and hoping for a US defeat. Of seeing the horrible photos of families leaving houses they once owned, leaving lives they'd earned, and living as prisoners of war in their own country. I've had the opportunity to read the rationalizations -- conditions aren't that bad, for their own protection -- and the blatant racisim from national leaders of the time. And then I examine my own thoughts and I'm no better than my ancestors. I see a culture I don't understand and I see some members of that culture attack mine, and I don't know how I'm supposed to tell the difference between potential attackers and law-abiding citizens. All of it looks foreign and foreign = suspicious. And suspicious = better safe than sorry. I'm scared of them, I'm scared of myself, and I'm scared for future generations. And my own selfish, reprehensible, rascist inner turmoil is nothing compared to loss of life. But damn the terrorists for feeding my internal monster. Damn them for promoting fear for fear's sake. Damn them for promoting eternal reward as a justification for present pain. Damn them for using the powerless in their own power grab. And damn them to the deepest hell for every husband, wife, mother, father, sister, brother, and child who cries themselves to sleep as tears overflow the holes in their hearts. __________________ traguna macoities tracorum satis de
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07-07-2005, 02:23 PM	#6
Name Title Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: here Posts: 779	Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow you may very well be dead __________________ Signature
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07-07-2005, 04:39 PM	#9
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Prudence led me down a different train of thought with her "inner monster" idea. While not the reason we went into Iraq, the Iraq insurgency is, in fact, run by and fought by terrorists. The terrorists obviously do not understand the majority of citizens in the US or Great Britain. The fact is, that until the speech by Bush a few days ago, support was waning among the American populace. I believe that Americans know who is fighting us in Iraq at present. I believe that attacks such as this are a reminder that terrorists are in it for the long haul. I believe 9/11 is a distant and fading memory to many Americans, and I believe that Americans wish to live at peace with everyone. However, attacks like this and the Madrid bombing only serve to freshen in the minds the feelings of horror of what terrorist attacks are. It strengthens the resolve rather than weakening it. I do not think that Americans or Brits are prone to backing down.
	Submit to Quotes