The Official Harry Potter thread (SPOILERS - NO tags)

[wendybeth]

Okay- I made it through the maze of spoilers- lol. Great posts, and great ideas.

I think Snape is a bastard, but one with remorse and regret.(2) I also think that he, unlike Voldie, is capable of love, and that is why he is working against his former master. I believe that he was in love with Lily and when he discovered that he had played a role in her death, he was overcome with remorse and and wanted revenge against her murderer. Dumbledore keeps saying that love is the strongest magic of all (1)- even the darkest arts can be defeated by it. If Snape is motivated by such a powerful magic, then he would be able to prevent Voldemort from seeing his true mission. He could have hurt any one of the kids at any time, yet he didn't. Even at the end, he was still 'teaching' Harry, and only lost his temper when called a coward. (3)

I think Snape and Dumbledore set up this scenario, to lure out the Death-Eaters and fool Voldemort into thinking the school, and Harry, were without their leader. They couldn't let anyone else into the secret, as Voldemort would easily be able to the truth then. I'll back this up later, but I have a few other things I want to cover first.

Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead.

So far, unless JK introduces a new character in #7, I believe RAB is Regulus. He disappeared, but no one knows how or where he died, just that he had turned his back on the Dark Lord. I think he may be dead, as the Black house (and Kreacher) probably wouldn't have gone to Harry if Regulus were still living. I also think that Kreacher hid one of the horcrux's- remember in book 5 when he was stashing away all the Black family artifacts? So, all Harry has to do is discover this, and order Kreacher to give it to him.

Peter Pettigrew.....He is still in the wings, and Dumbledore indicated that he may end up being of great help to Harry in the end. And what about the new Minister of Magic? Does his status as a vampire play into the story, or is it yet another flipping herring?

Okay- back to housepainting.

(1)Pgs 508-512.
(2) Pgs 548-550
(3) pGS 602- 605

[Jazzman]

If nobody minds, I'm going to cross-post my theories regarding HBP from MiceChat (saves me time) but I am putting them in spoiler boxes to save space and spare those who have read them already.

Spoiler:

I’m doubting that Dumbledore is actually gone and that Snape is really evil. Rowling loves to put in little hints that you don’t realize until later, and this book seemed chock full of them. Most obvious of which, Dumbledore’s attempt to turn Draco around. From page 592. “I can help you Draco... He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine... Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me... Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother...” He’s talking about faking one’s death! And later, “No Draco, it is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.” Obviously Dumbledore is in control, and I also believe that his later pleading was simply to add to the ruse. Further, I do not believe that he would have stunned an invisible Harry, forcing him to watch the horror of Dumbledore’s murder, unless he had a great reason. And what better way to convince the world, and your enemies, that you are dead than to convince the ones who love you most and who are closest to you? If Harry believes, Voldemort surely will. And getting ultimate credibility for Snape from Voldy at the same time? Perfect. Further, in OotP Dumbledore remarked how much easier it was to accomplish tasks when released from the school. Well, now he certainly is released. But the thing that did it for me was this, from page 645, “Bright, white flames had erupted around Dumbledore’s body and the table upon which it lay... White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a Phoenix fly joyfully into the blue...” Rowling never adds a “so-and-so thought they saw such-and-such” unless they actually did. Remember Draco catching a fleeting glimpse of Harry’s shoe? And the fact that Dumbledore’s body disappears behind flames that diminish to reveal the tomb, with nobody seeing his body actually interred, seems like the old “smoke and mirrors” bit to me. And last, I sincerely doubt that Rowling would have made Phoenixes so central in the books if it weren’t for something like this. Phoenix means returning from the grave, at least metaphorically. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t return.

And regarding Snape.

Spoiler:

My own suspicion is this. He is, through it all, good at heart. His malice towards Harry stems from his malice towards James, which in turn springs from, I believe, intense jealousy. I believe that Snape was (wait for it!!!) in love with Lilly, and he hated James, his tormenter and sworn enemy, for stealing her heart. Remember that when Harry was in the Pensieve, watching Sirius and James bully Snape, it was Lilly who intervened and made them stop (and, incidentally, we now know that she was a master potion maker, a major attraction to someone like Snape.) Snape’s harsh names thrown at her were just in reaction to being embarrassed. He loved her, and ultimately caused her death after hearing the prophecy. I believe that this is why Dumbledore trusts him completely. He knows that Snape’s heart broke when he realized that he had caused the death of the woman he loved, and therefore was forever committed to righting that wrong. Imagine; what if Harry was less pure and strong, was deeply in love with Ginny, but she fell in love with Draco, and Harry inadvertently got her killed. I imagine that he’d act much as Snape does. Also, if Snape was truly Dark enough to murder Albus Dumbledore, he wouldn't have simply knocked out Flitwick and left. If Snape was a true Death Eater, he would have killed him, knowing that he was an enemy of Voldemort. No, Snape is still undercover. Deep cover, now.

And my little caveat.

Spoiler:

As for Dumbledore, I’m going to play Devil's Advocate a little here. I still believe the theories which I posted, but I can’t help but wonder if those same clues that I picked up on could actually be proof that Dumbledore isn’t coming back. Here’s why. These books are kids books. Yes, adults are equally in love with them too, but still, they’re kids books. And kids books share the common trait of teaching lessons. I wonder if, perhaps, Dumbledore’s death is such a lesson. In OotP, when Sirius died, the reader experienced it through Harry. We saw how Harry reacted; his disbelief, hope that it wasn’t real, gradual acceptance, coping with grief, etc. I wonder if that was “Death Lesson 1.” Now, with Dumbledore’s death, (Lesson 2) the reader experiences death for themselves. Where before we lamented for Harry and his pain, we now lament at our own sense of loss. And all of Rowling’s clever little clues, giving us hope that this isn’t real, may simply be a way of creating that feeling of disbelief in the reader, just as Harry felt it for Sirius. “No, he’s not dead! Look at this!”

So, I have to wonder if this is all Rowling’s way of teaching kids about death, and loss. With the funeral, the way her descriptions pulled you in so that you felt that you were there, experiencing it, feeling it; and now the long, slow path of acceptance, it definitely seems plausible. I hope that this isn’t true, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it is.

So those are my thoughts, anyhow. Whatever happens, I’m loving this series more and more and more....

[wendybeth]

Good points, Jazzman.

As far as whether or not Dumbledore was up to something, something he says (on page 553) tipped me off to the idea that perhaps all was not as it appears. He tells Harry, when asked about what others might think of him leaving the school, that "I am off to Hogsmeade for a drink" and "I sometimes offer Rosmerta my custom...or I appear to. It is as good a way as any of disguising one's true destination". I also caught what Jazzman pointed out regarding Draco, and the Pheonix connection as well. Thanks for saving me lots of typing, Jazz- my fingers are killing me from painting all day!

[libraryvixen]

I give full credit to Tracilicious on the theory that Harry's scar is the last Horcrux.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Having started the other thread and talked about this at length (to an embarrassing degree, no less) on LJ, I don't have much energy to discuss the book again here, BUT, Wendybeth!!!!:

"Lupin and Bill will be released from the curse once Fenrir is dead."

That didn't even occur to me. How awesome! And I really hope this happens. But it may not. The werewolf condition, afterall, has been primarily used as a metaphor for illness and disability. And there's not usually a magical cure for either, so she may think it a betrayal to suddenly cure Remus and Bill of a sudden toward the end of the book.

Pettigrew will probably be important because, I think, he owes a life debt to Harry.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Also, I have developed the BEST theory of all about the importance of Harry having Lily's eyes:

"Harry, you have your mother's eyes."

"Remus, I know. You keep telling me. Everyone keeps telling me. We both have green eyes. Gotcha."

"No, I mean, your mother's actual eyes. You have them."

"Wha???"

"Dumbledore left them in the letter he gave to Petunia, the evening he left you at the Dursley's doorstep. She has kept them safe for you. They are very powerful weapons, which you will need to use inorder to destroy Voldemort."

"EW! And, how?"

"Throw them at him."

"Throw them? Will they, um, blow him up?"

"No. They will really gross him out, though. And while he's all frantic and trying to wipe off leaky eyeball juice, you will be given the opportunity to kill him."

[libraryvixen]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

Also, I have developed the BEST theory of all about the importance of Harry having Lily's eyes:

"Harry, you have your mother's eyes."

"Remus, I know. You keep telling me. Everyone keeps telling me. We both have green eyes. Gotcha."

"No, I mean, your mother's actual eyes. You have them."

"Wha???"

"Dumbledore left them in the letter he gave to Petunia, the evening he left you at the Dursley's doorstep. She has kept them safe for you. They are very powerful weapons, which you will need to use inorder to destroy Voldemort."

"EW! And, how?"

"Throw them at him."

"Throw them? Will they, um, blow him up?"

"No. They will really gross him out, though. And while he's all frantic and trying to wipe off leaky eyeball juice, you will be given the opportunity to kill him."

Holy crap!! Where did I miss this?

I love that I'm reading this in the morning where I can laugh my ass off then show the people at work when I go in!

[wendybeth]

Lol, Eliza!!!
And my apologies for forgetting about the other thread- I didn't mean to step on toes, but I guess this one differs in that there are no spoiler tags to wade through.

I wonder of Pettigrew's nifty new hand is a horcrux? I can't see him intentionally helping Harry.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Lol, Eliza!!!
And my apologies for forgetting about the other thread- I didn't mean to step on toes, but I guess this one differs in that there are no spoiler tags to wade through.

I wonder of Pettigrew's nifty new hand is a horcrux? I can't see him intentionally helping Harry.

The hand theory is way far out and totally worth wondering about. Though I can't imagine Voldemort entrusting such an object to such a rat fink. Heh.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Well, now that Eliza's here, I guess this really is the official thread.

I've seen various people say "How did the Dursleys abuse Dudley?" I thought that much was obvious. They abused him by turning him into a monster. Spoiling a child doesn't mean they're giving him everything he needs - they didn't give him discipline.