Pledge of Allegiance ruled unconstitutional - Page 5

MickeyLumbo · 09-14-2005, 09:19 PM

may God bless Sacramento - the LEFT side of Sacramento.

and God Bless LoT, damnit!

€uroMeinke · 09-17-2005, 08:42 AM

I just don't see why we need a pledge in ths first place - none-the-less have it recited by people too young to understand it, or even commit to it's ideals. Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety.

Motorboat Cruiser · 09-17-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety.

I don't see a reason for it either, quite frankly. I would be interested in hearing other posters feelings as to why the pledge is necessary at all.

TigerLily · 09-17-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I don't see a reason for it either, quite frankly. I would be interested in hearing other posters feelings as to why the pledge is necessary at all.

I don't think it's neccessary. It reminds of a cult chanting everytime I hear it. I refused to say it in school, refused to have my hand on my chest and refused to stand until I was forced to.

PanTheMan · 09-17-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerLily

I don't think it's neccessary. It reminds of a cult chanting everytime I hear it. I refused to say it in school, refused to have my hand on my chest and refused to stand until I was forced to.

Well, the main point is that it shouldnt even be an issue. Don't you remember back when you said it? It was just part of the morning routine, and it was said so mechanically, for years I thought I was saying something about being invisible with liberty and Justice for all.

I was busy during that time admiring how Cute Jennifer McHugh was that morning....lol

MickeyLumbo · 09-17-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanTheMan

Well, the main point is that it shouldnt even be an issue. Don't you remember back when you said it? It was just part of the morning routine, and it was said so mechanically, for years I thought I was saying something about being invisible with liberty and Justice for all.

I was busy during that time admiring how Cute Jennifer McHugh was that morning....lol

Totally agree - except his name wasn't Jennifer

SacTown Chronic · 09-17-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

I just don't see why we need a pledge in ths first place - none-the-less have it recited by people too young to understand it, or even commit to it's ideals. Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety.

My sentiments exactly.

Ghoulish Delight · 09-17-2005, 11:10 AM

Yeah, not a big pledge fan in general myself. If the ideals of America are all that, why is it necessary to brainwash our children in such an institutional way? Shouldn't merely living here and witnessing its greatness do the trick.

Motorboat Cruiser · 09-17-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

If the ideals of America are all that, why is it necessary to brainwash our children in such an institutional way?

It has always struck me as akin to brainwashing as well. The "under God" line only strengthens that perception for me.

scaeagles · 09-17-2005, 11:21 AM

I'll speak up.

I have always thought the name of the pledge was a misnomer. The flag is a symbol, but the key is "and to the republic for which it stands".

Our republic is unique in the world. No other state has anything close to the freedoms provided in our Constitution, on which our republic is based. We have multitudes of cutures represented here in mass, as one of only two countries in the world that have immigration policies (the other being Austrailia).

I think it is important to recognize this. I think it is important to acknowledge that it is the rights gauranteed to us are because of the Constitution and the republic based upon it. I think it is important to acknowledge, and I make no apologies for this, that we have the best country in the world. I say this because (and I know some will come in and want to talk about homosexual marriage or drugs) we have the most free country in the world. No other country gaurantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to bear arms, etc, etc, etc. Because of this, anyone can be whomever they wish. They can make whatever of themselves they wish.

While it is the people that accomplish this, not the government, it is the form of government we have that allows for it.

I think it important to acknowledge and instill a sense of nationalism in everyone. I do not fear nationalism. When we start pledging allegiance to a leader, I'll worry. But to pledge allegiance to our country and the freedoms gauranteed by it reminds us all that in spite of that massive diversity represented by the populace, we are Americans and have a common goal and purpose - to maintain that freedom and diversity for all -"with liberty and justice for all".

Go ahead and say that we don't have complete freedom or liberty or justice for all. But simply saying the pledge instills the principles.

We are not perfect in trying to instill those values. Our government is not perfect. As Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others."

09-14-2005, 09:19 PM	#1
MickeyLumbo thankfully grateful Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: shangrila Posts: 1,388	may God bless Sacramento - the LEFT side of Sacramento. and God Bless LoT, damnit! __________________
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09-17-2005, 08:42 AM	#2
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	I just don't see why we need a pledge in ths first place - none-the-less have it recited by people too young to understand it, or even commit to it's ideals. Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety. __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-17-2005, 11:10 AM	#8
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Yeah, not a big pledge fan in general myself. If the ideals of America are all that, why is it necessary to brainwash our children in such an institutional way? Shouldn't merely living here and witnessing its greatness do the trick. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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09-17-2005, 11:21 AM	#10
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I'll speak up. I have always thought the name of the pledge was a misnomer. The flag is a symbol, but the key is "and to the republic for which it stands". Our republic is unique in the world. No other state has anything close to the freedoms provided in our Constitution, on which our republic is based. We have multitudes of cutures represented here in mass, as one of only two countries in the world that have immigration policies (the other being Austrailia). I think it is important to recognize this. I think it is important to acknowledge that it is the rights gauranteed to us are because of the Constitution and the republic based upon it. I think it is important to acknowledge, and I make no apologies for this, that we have the best country in the world. I say this because (and I know some will come in and want to talk about homosexual marriage or drugs) we have the most free country in the world. No other country gaurantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to bear arms, etc, etc, etc. Because of this, anyone can be whomever they wish. They can make whatever of themselves they wish. While it is the people that accomplish this, not the government, it is the form of government we have that allows for it. I think it important to acknowledge and instill a sense of nationalism in everyone. I do not fear nationalism. When we start pledging allegiance to a leader, I'll worry. But to pledge allegiance to our country and the freedoms gauranteed by it reminds us all that in spite of that massive diversity represented by the populace, we are Americans and have a common goal and purpose - to maintain that freedom and diversity for all -"with liberty and justice for all". Go ahead and say that we don't have complete freedom or liberty or justice for all. But simply saying the pledge instills the principles. We are not perfect in trying to instill those values. Our government is not perfect. As Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others."
	Submit to Quotes