Whatever you do, don't take my finger!

[Tito's Kitten]

Hey not to get off topic (but since Prudence brought it up) I had my son circumcised and I do not regret it. So Prudence, I will buy you the first round of beers in hell. (but you have to share the wings with me!!)

[Prudence]

W00T! Beer in hell!

[Scrooge McSam]

Hey... What's a little genital mutilation among family?

Will you also be nipping off the breast buds of any female children? That breast cancer is such a nasty disease. Better to go ahead and do that rather than risk having to deal with a possible case of cancer years later.

[Nephythys]

I chose to NOT have my sons circumcised- if they want it done they can get it done themselves!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I chose to NOT have my sons circumcised- if they want it done they can get it done themselves!

I choose not to have my children baptized or christened or given communion or whatever else other religions do - if they want it doen they can get it done themselves!

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I choose not to have my children baptized or christened or given communion or whatever else other religions do - if they want it doen they can get it done themselves!

Heh- it wasn't a religious issue for me. I had an appt for Davis- and I was agonizing over it. I admit it was a verse in the Bible that convinced me that I did not HAVE to follow through- so I didn't, then with the other two boys it was an easier decision.

What I felt was societal pressure- and as a teen mom it was even harder with pressure from the medical people I dealt with. In my family I have examples of this issue to go on as well- my dad was born in Denmark and was not circumcised until his family came to the US when he was 8. His parents felt it was the thing to do- at EIGHT! Yikes- and he has always regretted their choice. My brother is not circumcised and it never caused him any issues- so I felt ok with my choice.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Heh- it wasn't a religious issue for me. I had an appt for Davis- and I was agonizing over it. I admit it was a verse in the Bible that convinced me that I did not HAVE to follow through- so I didn't, then with the other two boys it was an easier decision.

What I felt was societal pressure- and as a teen mom it was even harder with pressure from the medical people I dealt with. In my family I have examples of this issue to go on as well- my dad was born in Denmark and was not circumcised until his family came to the US when he was 8. His parents felt it was the thing to do- at EIGHT! Yikes- and he has always regretted their choice. My brother is not circumcised and it never caused him any issues- so I felt ok with my choice.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people making this choice. Free country, freedom of religion, etc. I also don't believe it affects anything either way, and I don't judge others on this.

For me it is a personal religious thing and it's one of the few traditions I know I'll stick with. I can't imagine making a child do it at 8 years old! No, it must be when the kid is only 8 days old and won't even remember it.

I see it as a connection with my cultural past.

[lizziebith]

Yes, I felt enormous pressure at the hospital to have it done "so he'll look like his dad" WTF??? Did they check daddy out? Will baby need to check daddy out to be okay as a man? Sheesh. We decided to not cut our babe. You will not believe (you who do not yet have kids) how many family members think this sort of thing is their business.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I choose not to have my children baptized or christened or given communion or whatever else other religions do - if they want it doen they can get it done themselves!

Yeah, there's just TONS of blood letting with baptism. Scars them for life, I tell ya!

I think we should all only hold up our cultural traditions that involve mutilation for our children. All of the others can fall by the wayside.


As far as surgery on animals go:

Originally Posted by CP

As for my stance, I personally wouldn't own a cat, period, so it's hard for me to understand a decision regarding altering an animal so it wouldn't destroy my property

Both dogs and cats can be distuptive to one's personal property. Scoundrel has many traditional "dog" traits in that he likes to chew. Cats don't usually exhibit that type of behaviour, but he does. Training for both dogs and cats will only do so much. I'm not going to remove Scoundrel's teeth or those of a puppy because he is chewing. If you can't handle animal behavious, don't own a pet.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Yeah, there's just TONS of blood letting with baptism. Scars them for life, I tell ya!

If you're insinuating that circumcision scars a child for life, you are wrong. Anything that happens 8 days after a child is born will not be remembered. Ask any man who had one.

To me, it's the same as any religious ritual, blood or not.

I'm sure there are some men who grow up and eventually feel slighted that their flap of skin was removed. There are plenty of other people who grow up feeling slighted because they were raised with a certain religion or culture or whatever. Or maybe their parents never took them to Disneyland, or maybe they couldn't eat pork, or whatever. We all have baggage.

I've seen babies with pierced ears. Blood and pain so the baby can look good?

Originally Posted by NA

I think we should all only hold up our cultural traditions that involve mutilation for our children. All of the others can fall by the wayside.

If you are insinuating that I want other cultural traditions to fall by the wayside, you are wrong again.

Originally Posted by NA

Both dogs and cats can be distuptive to one's personal property. Scoundrel has many traditional "dog" traits in that he likes to chew. Cats don't usually exhibit that type of behaviour, but he does. Training for both dogs and cats will only do so much. I'm not going to remove Scoundrel's teeth or those of a puppy because he is chewing. If you can't handle animal behavious, don't own a pet.

My point exactly. I would never make my pet have a surgery just to convenience me. I only mention the difference in my mind between dogs and cats because I can deal with the damage a dog will inflict. If the dog has damaging problems, I'd train it. (I owned three dogs in my youth.) Cats are far less trainable. I say the same thing to all possible pet owners - if you can't handle animal behaviors, don't own a pet.

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

So there's no such thing as an inhumane surgery? Lobotomy ethically equivalent to apendectomy?

The claim that people make regarding the inhumanity of the claw surgery is that it is overly painful. Any surgery is very painful.

Originally Posted by Scrooge

Barring medical necessity, why not let the child decide when he's of the age to?

Because it COULD scar you for life if you have it at an older age. I don't have a dick but lordy, I think that one should do it before the age of awareness.

Medical authorities, the AMA no less, say there is no medical reason for this procedure on a newborn.

Very few people today would claim otherwise.

Why is it right and proper to operate on a boy's genitals with the parent's consent, but not a girl child? How many of you are ready to argue for female genital modification on a newborn?

You are working on misinformation about the differences between "female modification" and the Jewish Bris. The female procedure, done by some Islamic cultures, removes the freakin' pleasure centers. The Bris removes a flap of skin unnecessary for sexual pleasure.

Without getting too graphic, these body parts infolved are fused together much like the fingernail joins the flesh underneath. They can't be cut apart, they must be pulled apart, or ripped if you prefer. And without anesthetic, remember.

Again, untrue. I've witnessed many a Bris. The rabbi (who also always a certified MD) uses a scalpel. No pulling or ripping involved. The exterior flap is removed. And the baby is given a small amount of wine on a cloth to suck on.

I guess I'm thankful I've seen most of your pictures and I know for a fact most of you don't have bones in your noses.

*FOUL! alright, that was outta line apologize now*

I'm sorry.

You can't say whatever you want just because you apologize a line later.

I'd really rather people didn't test me by trying to say that me and my entire culture are brutal neanderthals. This coming from someone who is from an even smaller minority group that's discriminated against, namely being gay, is incredible to me.

Scrooge, I love ya, please don't insult me.