Riding crop costumes go bye bye

[Alex]

I'm not sure how to say what I want to say. So I'll sum it up this way:

1. I, personally, am fat. Physically I am not attractive (to me) because of this.

2. Physically, other fat people are not attractive to me. This has little to do with the attractiveness of people I know because once actual social interaction begins, simple physical attractiveness is quickly swamped by many other elements that go into a whole person. But when I'm simply seeing a cast member at the park or my waiter at a restaurant, all there is is simple physical attractiveness. Fat is not to my liking in this regard. Further, if the person is thin, Asian, tall, large breasted, and has red hair then their attractiveness is greatly augmented for me. Physical attractiveness is a set of personal standards that can be expressed across populations within certain ranges. While these ranges vary over time and place, the ideal does tend towards the thinner side (from ancient statuary, the Venus de Milo was not considered ugly and David has no love handles).

3. Again, for emphasis, point 2 only really applies in purely physical interactions where the myriad of other personal factors can not come into play.

4. So, purely for selfish reasons, my preference would be that all non-character cast members at Disneyland be tall D-cup Asian women with red hair.

5. My purely selfish preferences should have nothing to do with Disneyland's hiring practices for non-character cast members and unless weight somehow limits ability, it should be a non-factor in hiring. I do not buy into the notion that non-character cast members are "casting." The standards of filmmaking no more apply to the cashier at the Emporium than they do at the McDonald's across the street.

6. I would like to see more diversity in some of the character and entertainment cast members as well, while we're at it. I would love to see a black or hispanic (or any other race/ethnicity) Cinderella standing out in front of the castle. This wouldn't bother me at all, any more than I'd be upset to find an Inuit playing skipper on the Jungle Cruise.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Ah, Jenni-san. Don't think so small! What if, say, Martin Luther King Jr. had said "no one would listen"? Not to equate the civil rights movement with the armpit hair movement. But you know what I'm saying.

Besides, Paris has found the hairy armpits sexy for years now. You're just playing to the wrong audience.

Heehee!

Hey, if someone stood up and became the MLK of perceived beauty, that would kick some serious ass.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

You say all this as if a) I made it up, b) that it's not true in our society. You just have to go to http://www.hotornot.com to find out exactly what the average (internet enabled) individual thinks is hot or not.

And you, and some others, continue to miss the point. Understanding the status quo does not require one to accept the status quo. True, you're not fat so I guess it's not your fight. You have no reason not to be okay with the status quo.

And honestly -- it doesn't matter what you think of me. I have a husband who, for God only knows what reason, apparently loves and adores me -- blubber and all. I have a family that has every confidence in my future success. My friends, although few in number, are true blue to the end. I'll indulge in some rare confidence and assert that I am the smartest person I know. I can sign, dance, and play ragtime piano. I can knit, sew, and assemble Ikea furniture. And, perhaps most importantly, my cat thinks my lap is the best napping spot on the planet. I have nearly every blessing imaginable, but looks weren't included in the package.

What I try to keep out of my life are people who think that the way society treats me is just something to be accepted -- a throw the hands up in the air, what is one to do, can't fight it mentality. No one's required to fight my battles for me, but my friends and family do anyhow. That's what sets them apart.

As for this discussion, gee, you'll be my "friend" even though I'm fat? How magnanimous of you! You can wrap it up however you like, but it's still pity. My friends don't need to overlook my appearance in order to be my friend.

[Alex]

My friends don't need to overlook my appearance in order to be my friend.

But do they have to find you physically attractive to be your friend? When I'm friends with someone I find less than attractive physically, it is not despite this. Physical attraction plays no role in what I think of somebody as a friend and person, but simply in how likely I am to spend stray moments imagining them naked and in my bedroom.

I have many friends. I doubt many of them find me physically attractive. I don't think it is pity friendship. If I won the "let's be nice to the ugly guy" lottery, I didn't get my notification in the mail.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

But do they have to find you physically attractive to be your friend? When I'm friends with someone I find less than attractive physically, it is not despite this. Physical attraction plays no role in what I think of somebody as a friend and person, but simply in how likely I am to spend stray moments imagining them naked and in my bedroom.

I have many friends. I doubt many of them find me physically attractive. I don't think it is pity friendship. If I won the "let's be nice to the ugly guy" lottery, I didn't get my notification in the mail.

I don't consider a single one of my friends ugly. None of them are. They're my friends. How could they possibly be ugly?

There's a fine distinction here I'm apparently failing to make. That frustrates me, because it is very important to me.

I'm not saying that to be my friend one has to spend their every ounce of energy resisting the urge to grab me for some hot monkey love. But if they truly find me so visually repulsive that they would nod and agree that I'm downright ugly then I can't imagine why they would want to spend any time with me at all. And if they think that there are things I shouldn't do or places I shouldn't go because of how I look, then I don't want to spend time with them.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Prudence

I'll indulge in some rare confidence and assert that I am the smartest person I know. SNIP and assemble Ikea furniture.

You can assemble IKEA furniture! You are a genius!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Prudence

As for this discussion, gee, you'll be my "friend" even though I'm fat? How magnanimous of you! You can wrap it up however you like, but it's still pity. My friends don't need to overlook my appearance in order to be my friend.

Are you physically attracted to all of your friends?

It's NOT, "I'll be your friend even though you're fat." It's, "When interacting with people as friends, their relative physical attractiveness is unimportant to me."

[Ponine]

Originally Posted by Prudence

As for this discussion, gee, you'll be my "friend" even though I'm fat? How magnanimous of you! You can wrap it up however you like, but it's still pity. My friends don't need to overlook my appearance in order to be my friend.

Please, by my friend, even though I am fat.
Be my friend even though I am poor judge of character.. and please,

at the very least, understand that I did, and DO like the riding crop costume, and the french maid outfit.
Doesnt mean I think we need to wear them, but I like them.

Thats what I meant back on page one, its what I mean now.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Note - I've been writing this for a while and some have responded before I could post.

Originally Posted by Prudence

And you, and some others, continue to miss the point. Understanding the status quo does not require one to accept the status quo. True, you're not fat so I guess it's not your fight. You have no reason not to be okay with the status quo.

Did you even read what I said about being picked on? Was that not enough detail for you? Well here you go. I was contemplating suicide in the 7th grade because I was a social outcast. A gang of girls tortured me constantly. One of them sat behind me in homeroom and would whisper in my ear about how ugly I was during class. No matter what clothes I bought they continued to make fun of me, every single day. Like I mentioned, they threw me against the lockers, sprayed me with hair spray, pulled my hair and called me flat, a stick, a boy, and whatever other euphemisms they could come up with. My one and only friend of a year and a half dumped me cermonially for another group of girls and laughed at me as I ran away crying.

I hope that's enough for you. I have more if you want it. The grass is always fvcking greener.

The status quo says a lot of things about me and how I live my life. I've been judged from many angles. I've especially been judged because I like stating harsh realities that others wished didn't exist.

Look, I'm only saying all this because I'm sick of the pretending. Pretending these issues don't exist is burying one's head in the sand and doesn't move towards solving them.

And honestly -- it doesn't matter what you think of me. I have a husband who, for God only knows what reason, apparently loves and adores me -- blubber and all. I have a family that has every confidence in my future success. My friends, although few in number, are true blue to the end. I'll indulge in some rare confidence and assert that I am the smartest person I know. I can sign, dance, and play ragtime piano. I can knit, sew, and assemble Ikea furniture. And, perhaps most importantly, my cat thinks my lap is the best napping spot on the planet. I have nearly every blessing imaginable, but looks weren't included in the package.

Why do you feel the need to prove your worth to me? I KNOW you're a smart person, with a wonderful life, and a lot to be proud of. I've known you for YEARS, and since the LoT started nearly a full year ago, I've learned a lot more about you. I knew most of the stuff you listed above. I never said you were worthless or stupid or what have you. Hell, I never even said that I personally find you unattractive!

I'll say this again. I'm close friends with many people of different sizes and shapes! LSPE is one of the women I admire most in the world! Geez, how many times can I say this stuff?

As for this discussion, gee, you'll be my "friend" even though I'm fat? How magnanimous of you! You can wrap it up however you like, but it's still pity. My friends don't need to overlook my appearance in order to be my friend.

Prudence, I'm seriously shaking my head here. Am I supposed to want to fvck everyone? Do you want to fvck all of your friends? Are you attracted to everybody in the world? Have you never drooled over a "hot guy"? Have you never looked at a guy and thought "I'm not attracted to him"? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Tell me, Pru, what do YOU find physically attractive?

[innerSpaceman]

And please, give me a break about the pity friendships business. I have many friends whom I love dearly, but would not hire for certain on-stage roles.

If you don't consider Disneyland to be an entertainment situation where every so-called cast member is called that for a reason, then we are comparing apples to oranges.