The polarization of "Crash" - Page 2

Gemini Cricket · 01-20-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponine

GC?

Me? Oh, I'd say something. But no one wants to hear me brag.
'Me and Matt?' I'd say. 'We're like that.' Then I'd cross my fingers.
Ha ha.

Joking! That was a joke. No flames!

Seriously though, I'd report him. My husband would survive.

innerSpaceman · 01-20-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job...If a CSI investigator (or whatever she was) spouted overtly racists remarks to someone, she would lose her job. If a DA's wife was deemed as a racist (and witnessed as one by several people in her house), the press would have a field day bringing that DA down.

We are living on different planets.

Cops in particular, get away (quite literally) with murder, and every crime in between that and pencil theft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I'm not saying all racists are covert. But what are the odds that all 12 of these people are?

About the same as all 12 of these people being interconnected by automobile incidents. Either you accept that coincidence is the essence of the story or you don't. But since it IS, the presence of coincidence is simply not a legitimate criticism (any more than my criticism of King Kong is that I would have found a giant hamster more realistic).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

So the filmmakers need not be experienced in being on the receiving end of racism in order to be credible, but I do?

No, you miss my point - which is that you shouldn't hold the filmmakers to different level of racism-familiarity than you have yourself. I was pointing out that your own familiarity seems limited in respects, so why can't the filmmakers' be limited in others?

Oh, and since Jake and Ennis are both as bisexual as I am, I am quite authoritative on BBM.

innerSpaceman · 01-19-2006, 03:34 PM

Sorry, G.C., but you and I simply did not see the same movie.

If you think racism is only displayed covertly, than perhaps it's because of your own limited experience with it. Now that you're living in a bigger city, maybe you'll see some of it in its purer form.

I think this is a case of you simply not buying into the premise and style of the movie, and nothing worked for you from that moment on. That's perfectly legitimate - - - but hardly the definitive truth of this widely acclaimed film. Many others had no problem buying into the film's premise and style and, for them, everything worked from that moment on.

You're opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and it contributes to the polarizing factor which makes my enjoyment of 'Crash' even greater. So, um, thanks for hating it.

btw, where does anyone get the idea that Matt Dillon's character is supposed to be "redeemed" in the eyes of the audience? I think his character is supposed to be given some dimension, not receive forgiveness for what a vile person he remains ... despite good works as a cop and as a son.

I'll grant that subtlety was not in any way the style of this film. But why would it have to be? (I wanted a giant hamster to ravage New York in the new King Kong, but most people seemed fine with the same old giant ape .... sometimes you have to accept the style that the filmmaker chooses, and judge it on those terms rather than on standards that simply don't apply.)

Gemini Cricket · 01-19-2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

If you think racism is only displayed covertly, than perhaps it's because of your own limited experience with it.

Don't assume too much, iSm. If I didn't know you, I'd call you out of line. I'm not going to qualify your quote with a laundry list. And don't expect to see a smilie of any sort after this sentence.

This film is widely acclaimed because no one has had the guts to touch this subject in a long while. Someone did, and that's great, but that someone didn't do it well.

innerSpaceman · 01-19-2006, 08:08 PM

Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me.

(oh, and if it's the homo thing ... well, that's not exactly racism, but I'll grant some similarities)

Or are we talking racism from the giving end???

tracilicious · 01-20-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me.

I have Samoan in-laws that have certainly experienced racism. I think anything that varies from the norm is sometimes discriminated against.

I haven't seen Crash, but I will now.

tracilicious · 01-20-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me.

I have Samoan in-laws that have certainly experienced racism. I think anything that varies from the norm is sometimes discriminated against.

I haven't seen Crash, but I will now.

Alex · 01-20-2006, 10:59 AM

Of course Hawaiian discrimination. Most people couldn't tell a Hawaiian from a Samoan from a Tongan (and most could tell general Polynesian traits from general Asian traits).

Many haoles suffer under the same misconceptions of Hawaiian laziness as exist for Mexicans and other tropical populations.

As for China Man being the worst thing you can call a Korean, I don't doubt they'd find it insulting, but in my experience calling them Japanese is worse (and conversely, calling a Japanese person anything other than Japanese will be considered quite insulting).

I haven't seen Crash and probably won't for a couple years (it's in my 400-movie-long Netflix queue) since I have no particular compulsion to move it up in the queue. From what I've read and what little I've seen it just doesn't interest me.

Gemini Cricket · 01-20-2006, 06:53 AM

To say that if someone didn't like this film it's because they have never experienced racism is preposterous. One can make a distinction between how a film is made and its content. Also, if you read the post again, I never said it only happens covertly. I said that a lot of it is.

I'm not answering your above questions.

Gemini Cricket · 01-20-2006, 10:53 AM

I don't know if this thread is polarized about racism. It's polarized on whether the film was made well or not. I say not.

(Btw- I'm seeing double posts... Am I drunk?) ???

01-19-2006, 03:34 PM	#3
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Sorry, G.C., but you and I simply did not see the same movie. If you think racism is only displayed covertly, than perhaps it's because of your own limited experience with it. Now that you're living in a bigger city, maybe you'll see some of it in its purer form. I think this is a case of you simply not buying into the premise and style of the movie, and nothing worked for you from that moment on. That's perfectly legitimate - - - but hardly the definitive truth of this widely acclaimed film. Many others had no problem buying into the film's premise and style and, for them, everything worked from that moment on. You're opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and it contributes to the polarizing factor which makes my enjoyment of 'Crash' even greater. So, um, thanks for hating it. btw, where does anyone get the idea that Matt Dillon's character is supposed to be "redeemed" in the eyes of the audience? I think his character is supposed to be given some dimension, not receive forgiveness for what a vile person he remains ... despite good works as a cop and as a son. I'll grant that subtlety was not in any way the style of this film. But why would it have to be? (I wanted a giant hamster to ravage New York in the new King Kong, but most people seemed fine with the same old giant ape .... sometimes you have to accept the style that the filmmaker chooses, and judge it on those terms rather than on standards that simply don't apply.)
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01-19-2006, 08:08 PM	#5
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me. (oh, and if it's the homo thing ... well, that's not exactly racism, but I'll grant some similarities) Or are we talking racism from the giving end???
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01-20-2006, 10:59 AM	#8
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Of course Hawaiian discrimination. Most people couldn't tell a Hawaiian from a Samoan from a Tongan (and most could tell general Polynesian traits from general Asian traits). Many haoles suffer under the same misconceptions of Hawaiian laziness as exist for Mexicans and other tropical populations. As for China Man being the worst thing you can call a Korean, I don't doubt they'd find it insulting, but in my experience calling them Japanese is worse (and conversely, calling a Japanese person anything other than Japanese will be considered quite insulting). I haven't seen Crash and probably won't for a couple years (it's in my 400-movie-long Netflix queue) since I have no particular compulsion to move it up in the queue. From what I've read and what little I've seen it just doesn't interest me.
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01-20-2006, 06:53 AM	#9
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	To say that if someone didn't like this film it's because they have never experienced racism is preposterous. One can make a distinction between how a film is made and its content. Also, if you read the post again, I never said it only happens covertly. I said that a lot of it is. I'm not answering your above questions.
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01-20-2006, 10:53 AM	#10
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I don't know if this thread is polarized about racism. It's polarized on whether the film was made well or not. I say not. (Btw- I'm seeing double posts... Am I drunk?) ???
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