What is with parents these days? - Page 6

scaeagles · 02-04-2006, 05:01 PM

I would also argue that there is only so much time during the day.

I would prefer my children have math, science, language, phys ed, history, etc, than spend time on what I might consider to be frivilous. I'm not saying that opera is frivilous, but it may not be what I think my child should be spending time on while in the fourth grade. Let the parents be the ones that instill culture, as culture is vastly different to vastly different people.

Diversity is fine. Whatever. But I want to make sure my kid can read and add before I'm too worried about if he appreciates opera.

What if this mom objected because the opera contained Satan and had a moral regarding dealings with him to be bad because that was making a religious statement?

I think there's too much fluff in education. My 6th grade daughter is doing in math what I did in the 4th grade in math. Why? This is just where cirriculum writers have 6th graders at present, and I'm not blaming teachers. I just think need more of the readin', writin', and 'rithmetic.

mousepod · 02-05-2006, 12:16 AM

Hey scaeagles - according to the article, the class that the Faust appreciation video took place in was music class. You're not saying that music class is bad, right? Because if K-12 was just about the 3 R's, then we'd be in sorry shape.

Now, sports... that's something we can live without (I don't do smilies... but if I did there'd be a wink inserted here).

Kevy Baby · 02-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousepod

(I don't do smilies... but if I did there'd be a wink inserted here).

Take out your avatar and signature and you would be Alex's best friend!

scaeagles · 02-05-2006, 07:42 AM

Actually, I didn't read the article. In music class, no problem.

But my fluff argument still stands.

Motorboat Cruiser · 02-05-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Actually, I didn't read the article. In music class, no problem.

But my fluff argument still stands.

Just to clarify, do you think courses such as music and art are "fluff" classes? And if so, why are they but not phys ed.?

Alex · 02-05-2006, 12:13 PM

I can't answer for him, of course, but while I would consider P.E. more of a fluff class than music, but I would consider music class second tier in importance. I certainly never learned anything from elementary school music classes beyond the words to "The Battle of 1812" and "This Land Is Your Land"* (and I never took any in high school so I don't know if their value increases).

When I was in elementary school, music class was one hour a week, as was P.E., so I don't really feel that was a waste of time. Don't know if that is different in other places or has changed over time.

But I do know that my younger sister managed to get to sixth grade without being able to multiply beyond the most basic single digit numbers or read a non-digital clock (and this was after two years of being in a "gifted" program) so I don't think schools failing kids is anything new.

*I'm sure we sang other songs and did other musically things but for some reason those are the only things that have stuck in my mind from elementary school music classes.

wendybeth · 02-05-2006, 12:32 PM

Since when has the main mission of education been only the three R's? If you look back at typical education criteria from different eras, you'd find that there was so much more emphasis on the arts, history, philosophy, etc. We are incredibly difficient in these areas today; just about any exposure to what one might call a classical education is only done in some prep/private schools and in the home. I've looked at curriculum from the late 1800's to now, and we seem so far behind in so many areas. The average kid would probably flunk out of his/her grade level if we used the same tests and criteria that educators did back then, especially in the history/language/arts departments.

scaeagles · 02-05-2006, 11:03 AM

No, no, no.....not at all. As a reminder, I was a music theory/composition major on a scholarship. There is plenty of evidence that those who excel in music often excel in mathematics, and I think the training is well worth while.

I don't think phys ed is fluff, either.

I could go into what I think is fluff, but it would take a while.

Cadaverous Pallor · 02-05-2006, 11:11 AM

The problem is, where does the music class end and the fluff begin? Who's to say how much we should teach of any subject? The teachers and administrators battle with this every day.

scaeagles · 02-05-2006, 11:21 AM

Very true, CP. My wife is a teacher and we understand this very well.

The MAIN priority of school is the three Rs. So much other stuff pushes its way in that often times those are not treated as the priority. After I throw in history, the priorities are somewhat less clear. Music and phys ed are not as important as those others.

I keep starting writing various rants, but I find them to be endless. They have numerous tangents that I cannot seem to organize in any rational way. So....until I can figure out how to put all of my educational rants into something short of a voluminous tome, I will hold off. I would post one at a time, but I don't necessarily think one is more important than another.

02-04-2006, 05:01 PM	#1
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I would also argue that there is only so much time during the day. I would prefer my children have math, science, language, phys ed, history, etc, than spend time on what I might consider to be frivilous. I'm not saying that opera is frivilous, but it may not be what I think my child should be spending time on while in the fourth grade. Let the parents be the ones that instill culture, as culture is vastly different to vastly different people. Diversity is fine. Whatever. But I want to make sure my kid can read and add before I'm too worried about if he appreciates opera. What if this mom objected because the opera contained Satan and had a moral regarding dealings with him to be bad because that was making a religious statement? I think there's too much fluff in education. My 6th grade daughter is doing in math what I did in the 4th grade in math. Why? This is just where cirriculum writers have 6th graders at present, and I'm not blaming teachers. I just think need more of the readin', writin', and 'rithmetic.
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02-05-2006, 12:16 AM	#2
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Hey scaeagles - according to the article, the class that the Faust appreciation video took place in was music class. You're not saying that music class is bad, right? Because if K-12 was just about the 3 R's, then we'd be in sorry shape. Now, sports... that's something we can live without (I don't do smilies... but if I did there'd be a wink inserted here). __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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02-05-2006, 07:42 AM	#4
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Actually, I didn't read the article. In music class, no problem. But my fluff argument still stands.
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02-05-2006, 12:13 PM	#6
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I can't answer for him, of course, but while I would consider P.E. more of a fluff class than music, but I would consider music class second tier in importance. I certainly never learned anything from elementary school music classes beyond the words to "The Battle of 1812" and "This Land Is Your Land"* (and I never took any in high school so I don't know if their value increases). When I was in elementary school, music class was one hour a week, as was P.E., so I don't really feel that was a waste of time. Don't know if that is different in other places or has changed over time. But I do know that my younger sister managed to get to sixth grade without being able to multiply beyond the most basic single digit numbers or read a non-digital clock (and this was after two years of being in a "gifted" program) so I don't think schools failing kids is anything new. *I'm sure we sang other songs and did other musically things but for some reason those are the only things that have stuck in my mind from elementary school music classes.
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02-05-2006, 12:32 PM	#7
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	Since when has the main mission of education been only the three R's? If you look back at typical education criteria from different eras, you'd find that there was so much more emphasis on the arts, history, philosophy, etc. We are incredibly difficient in these areas today; just about any exposure to what one might call a classical education is only done in some prep/private schools and in the home. I've looked at curriculum from the late 1800's to now, and we seem so far behind in so many areas. The average kid would probably flunk out of his/her grade level if we used the same tests and criteria that educators did back then, especially in the history/language/arts departments. __________________
	Submit to Quotes

02-05-2006, 11:03 AM	#8
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	No, no, no.....not at all. As a reminder, I was a music theory/composition major on a scholarship. There is plenty of evidence that those who excel in music often excel in mathematics, and I think the training is well worth while. I don't think phys ed is fluff, either. I could go into what I think is fluff, but it would take a while.
	Submit to Quotes

02-05-2006, 11:11 AM	#9
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	The problem is, where does the music class end and the fluff begin? Who's to say how much we should teach of any subject? The teachers and administrators battle with this every day. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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02-05-2006, 11:21 AM	#10
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Very true, CP. My wife is a teacher and we understand this very well. The MAIN priority of school is the three Rs. So much other stuff pushes its way in that often times those are not treated as the priority. After I throw in history, the priorities are somewhat less clear. Music and phys ed are not as important as those others. I keep starting writing various rants, but I find them to be endless. They have numerous tangents that I cannot seem to organize in any rational way. So....until I can figure out how to put all of my educational rants into something short of a voluminous tome, I will hold off. I would post one at a time, but I don't necessarily think one is more important than another.
	Submit to Quotes