Howl's Moving Castle

[Alex]

If I was wrong in my assumption then I apologize. I don't think I was but so be it.

But my initial response that there are all kinds of rare exceptions to the generalization stands. Do we need to list them all?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

If I was wrong in my assumption then I apologize. I don't think I was but so be it.

But my initial response that there are all kinds of rare exceptions to the generalization stands. Do we need to list them all?

I accept your apology if that's what it was.

We could list them all, I suppose. If that's what you want.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I thought Christian Bale's husky voice being used for the lithe and youthful Howl was ridiculous.

I had the same reaction. But I wonder if it was because we heard the Japanese characterization first. I imagine we might have just accepted husky Howl if that's how we'd first been introduced to him.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I had the same reaction. But I wonder if it was because we heard the Japanese characterization first. I imagine we might have just accepted husky Howl if that's how we'd first been introduced to him.

We just got the film, and I like the contrast between the lithe, effeminate image and the husky voice. If he'd had a higher voice he'd not been as sympathetic to me. (I did not see the Japanese version). I think Asian audiences like characters like Howl- I notice in almost all the anime I've seen that the male hero (and sometimes the villian as well) has that same sort of look. Heck, Bao Joon has it as well in real life and he's doing quite well.

Loved the movie, btw. NOt as much as Spirited Away, but close.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Heck, Bao Joon has it as well in real life and he's doing quite well.

Astute observation there WB!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Wendybeth

I think Asian audiences like characters like Howl- I notice in almost all the anime I've seen that the male hero (and sometimes the villian as well) has that same sort of look.

Definitely. That's part of what I love about anime. I wouldn't usually consider the androgenous type my thing, but in this genre I adore the guys.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I had the same reaction. But I wonder if it was because we heard the Japanese characterization first. I imagine we might have just accepted husky Howl if that's how we'd first been introduced to him.

I'd have to say no way to that one. Do you think this guy is supposed to sound like Batman?

His real voice has a sexy allure all its own, and like I said, I totally fell for him.

[innerSpaceman]

Well, having finished the novel ... I can state categorically ... that both batman and johnny soko are right for the character Howl.

Howl is a ladies' man, a lothario, a love-'em-and-leave-'em heartbreaker, and a sexified con man. If sexy means androgenous boy to the Japanese (and to Cadaverous Pallor), then that's what's required for the Nipponese version of Howl. But that would simply NOT work for American audiences, and so I believe the husky batman voice was appropriate for the dubbing.


Now that I've read the book, I have 10 times more admiration for the Ghibli movie ... which invented practically everything other than the basic characters, their basic situation, and a few of the events that take place inside the Castle.

The Ghibli version invents the war scenario ... which I found so hamfisted. But that's comfortably grounded compared to the Ugh factor of the novel when ....

Spoiler:

Sophie finds one of the Castle's rotating portals leads to modern-day Wales, where she discovers that Howl is a 20th-century Welshman who grew up among the reader's own society ... in one of the most painfully embarrasing scenes to read. Ugh.

Wow, Ghibli invented practically everything for their version of the story, including ...

Spoiler:

The Witch of the Waste being turned old and benevolent by the King's sorceress Suliman and then hanging out at Howl's Castle for the rest of the story; Sophie switching back and forth between her young and old selves in a series of clues about the uniquely movie-version nature of the spell; the entire age-of-steam backdrop for society; the entire war (which was suggested by one line in the book); the giant bird-thing alter-ego of Howl; the blob creatures of Sulimon and Witch of the Waste (also merely suggested by a minor event in the book); the dog Hine (based ever so loosely on a character in the book); the secret identity of the Scarecrow (who is NOT Sophie's friend in the book, and turns out to be not the Prince, but Wizard Suliman - who is a man in the book and has nothing to do with Sophie's visit to the palace, where she actually meets with the King himself); the very nature of the moving castle (simply a floating illusion of a featureless, black castle in the book); Sophie's trip to Howl's past to discover his I-Heart-Calcifer meeting; and Sophie and Howl's entire relationship (though they end up together on the final page, they are antagonistic to each other throughout the story.) Oh, and in the book - a lot more people are witches ... including Sophie herself!

So much more is either different in the movie or entirely made up that I'd hesitate to say the film was based on the book AT ALL. They kept the title, a few things that happen, and the names of most of the characters. That's it.

They didn't even keep all of the characters' names: Heheh, Howl's apprentice is 15-year-old Michael in the book vs. the 8 or 9 year-old "Markl" in the movie. I give the movie uber props just for inventing the name "Markl" !!

But, overwhelmingly, I prefer the movie version of the story. Not since Disney adapted Pinocchio has an unwieldy piece of children's literature been so vastly and (imo) successfully molded into an animated film.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Now that I've read the book, I have 10 times more admiration for the Ghibli movie ... which invented practically everything other than the basic characters, their basic situation, and a few of the events that take place inside the Castle.

So I presume then that you'll be watching it from now on in the proper Japanese, as obviously the real meat of the story is Japanese in origin?

[innerSpaceman]

I don't want the list of exceptions, but I DO want Lani's (or Alex's) list of over-your-stupid-American-heads mythic Japanese folklore items ... so's I can enjoy Spirited Away even more than I already do.

[Alex]

Well, I don't know that I will ever again be able to distract her from World of Warcraft long enough to actually watch an entire movie.

But she did address some of the untranslated (though not so much the differently translated) elements of the movie in our review of the DVD.

The relevant paragraphs:

One notable disadvantage for American audiences is that the characters' Japanese names all reflect their personalities in one way or another. The "No Face" spirit is the only one whose Japanese name is translated into English, and it is a good example of how the name should indicate what that character is. To lose one's name or one's identity is to lose one's face to the world. And this is illustrated by No Face, who has no name or identity, and is lost without the acceptance of others.

"Kamaji," for example, literally means "old man of the furnace," while "Haku" means "white" and "Boh" means "young boy."

One rather significant explanation lost in the translation is what happens to Chihiro when Yubaba steals her name. In the name-stealing scene, Chihiro spells out "Ogino Chihiro," her surname and given name, in Japanese kanji characters. The kanji for "Chihiro" uses two characters meaning "a thousand fathoms" — indicating her tremendous depth of character. When Yubaba robs the second part of her name ("fathoms"), all Chihiro is left with is the character for "thousand": She has been converted from one of depth, to one that is scattered and confused, amid a swirl of a thousand broken pieces.

Finally, it was almost impossible for the translators to sufficiently explain the critical importance of the seal, and the significance of its theft. In traditional Japanese society (and even today to a certain extent), contracts and letters were never signed with a signature, but with a family's official seal. To steal another person's seal was to steal his very identity, not at all unlike modern-day identity theft where a hacker opens credit cards in a victim's name. Official seals were etched out by master carvers, and the little nicks and strokes were scrutinized just as fingerprints are today whenever there was a dispute as to the legitimacy of a contract authorized by the stamp of a seal. The translators instead did what they could, to refer to the seal as a "golden seal," thereby giving it the value of a family heirloom treasure.