The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 242

Ghoulish Delight · 10-04-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Nothing to do with her being a woman, and everything to do with her being... well, herself.

You know, even here in the sheltered world of Southern California, I encounter a ridiculous amount of sexism in the work place. Overt sexism. No one's dumb enough to base hiring or salary practices off of it, but the talk that goes on about female coworkers is shameful (and not just in a "sexual jokes" way, in a "they're not as important as us men" kinda way). I see it even more than I see racism. A lot more.

So I don't think I'm prepared to agree with it being "nothing to do with her being a woman." Oh, I'm sure lots of people who don't like her can put together some list of personality or political traits about Hillary to justify it, but I'm also sure many of those people would overlook many of those same traits in a man.

Sexism is alive and well in this country and if you don't think it enters into the equation, you're kidding yourself.

scaeagles · 10-03-2007, 05:33 PM

I would vote for Condoleeza Rice for President. If I thought about it I could name any number of minorities or women I would vote for.

I (and I suspect there are more like me than you would believe, but probably less than I think) base my vote on the policies of the candidate or the lesser of two evils. Hillary and Obama scare me (and Obama more so than Hillary, believe it or not) because of what they would do in office. I would vote for any Republican rather than either of them regardless of who the Republican is.

Do you (anyone being you) think Hillary wouldn't get votes because she's a woman or that she wouldn't get votes because of her history and policies? I have no doubt it is because of her history and policies.

wendybeth · 10-03-2007, 06:30 PM

I've no doubt it's both, Scaeagles. I think it's a safe bet that her politics plays into most people's decisions, but you're kidding yourself if you think there aren't a whole lot of people that would vote against her simply because of her gender.

Motorboat Cruiser · 10-03-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I would vote for Condoleeza Rice for President.

Luckily, nobody else would.

scaeagles · 10-03-2007, 07:23 PM

I agree with it, but what I don't want to have happen - however, I guarantee it will happen - is that if she loses in a general it will be deemed as a defeat for women and declare that we are a society of neanderthals because obviously, no matter how brilliant she is, we just weren't ready because of our backwards thinking.

If she is in the general and she is defeated, it won't be because she is a woman. I dare say many women may vote for her just because she is a woman. Her defeat will be because of her policies and history, and it will be sickening (should it happen) to listen to the spin about how it wasn't that.

wendybeth · 10-03-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I agree with it, but what I don't want to have happen - however, I guarantee it will happen - is that if she loses in a general it will be deemed as a defeat for women and declare that we are a society of neanderthals because obviously, no matter how brilliant she is, we just weren't ready because of our backwards thinking.

If she is in the general and she is defeated, it won't be because she is a woman. I dare say many women may vote for her just because she is a woman. Her defeat will be because of her policies and history, and it will be sickening (should it happen) to listen to the spin about how it wasn't that.

I would never vote for someone based on their gender or ethnicity alone and I'd like to think the same of most others. I doubt the world will think that America is comprised of Neanderthals if Hillary loses- they'll just continue on thinking about what hypocrites we are, like always. I promise, should it come to what you say, that I will be vocal about why I didn't vote for her. I've no patience with hypocrisy myself, and I can't stand it when someone plays the race or ethnic card when it is not always applicable. (Oprah lost me with the Hermes bull**** she pulled, not that I liked her much anyway).

scaeagles · 10-04-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

(Oprah lost me with the Hermes bull**** she pulled, not that I liked her much anyway).

Since I've never paid attention to one thing Oprah has said, I don't know what you are referring to.

wendybeth · 10-04-2007, 08:45 AM

Pulled out the race card when it really didn't apply. I've never been a fan, but now I can't stand to even hear her name. Kind like how you feel about Hillary, Scaeagles.

Snowflake · 10-04-2007, 09:14 AM

I'm still in a total quandry, nobody really appeals to me, not that appeal is a reson to vote for a presidential candidate. I can't get past the fear that no matter who follows Bush as president they're going to be totally screwed with so much mess on their hands. The worry that if the next president is independent or democratic, they will be seen as a failure and we'll go through another 2 year republican term after that.

scaeagles · 10-04-2007, 11:54 AM

That brings up an interesting point, Snow. If a dem is elected, I wonder how much their own difficulties will be blamed - whether by them or their supporters - on the Bush Presidency. The President doesn't exist in his (her) own Presidential bubble, but is obviously affected by the policies of the predecessor.

That being said, I have rarely (if ever) been permitted on this board to get away with saying "Bush has problem B because of how Clinton dealt with situation A". Rather, there has been a "happens/happened on his watch" sort of mentality, and i wonder if I'll get away with a "happens/happened on the dem's watch" attitude, or if anyone that doesn't let me get away with it will try it with a dem President.

10-03-2007, 05:33 PM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I would vote for Condoleeza Rice for President. If I thought about it I could name any number of minorities or women I would vote for. I (and I suspect there are more like me than you would believe, but probably less than I think) base my vote on the policies of the candidate or the lesser of two evils. Hillary and Obama scare me (and Obama more so than Hillary, believe it or not) because of what they would do in office. I would vote for any Republican rather than either of them regardless of who the Republican is. Do you (anyone being you) think Hillary wouldn't get votes because she's a woman or that she wouldn't get votes because of her history and policies? I have no doubt it is because of her history and policies.
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10-03-2007, 06:30 PM	#3
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I've no doubt it's both, Scaeagles. I think it's a safe bet that her politics plays into most people's decisions, but you're kidding yourself if you think there aren't a whole lot of people that would vote against her simply because of her gender. __________________
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10-03-2007, 07:23 PM	#5
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I agree with it, but what I don't want to have happen - however, I guarantee it will happen - is that if she loses in a general it will be deemed as a defeat for women and declare that we are a society of neanderthals because obviously, no matter how brilliant she is, we just weren't ready because of our backwards thinking. If she is in the general and she is defeated, it won't be because she is a woman. I dare say many women may vote for her just because she is a woman. Her defeat will be because of her policies and history, and it will be sickening (should it happen) to listen to the spin about how it wasn't that.
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10-04-2007, 08:45 AM	#8
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	Pulled out the race card when it really didn't apply. I've never been a fan, but now I can't stand to even hear her name. Kind like how you feel about Hillary, Scaeagles. __________________
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10-04-2007, 09:14 AM	#9
Snowflake lost in the fog Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 7,831	I'm still in a total quandry, nobody really appeals to me, not that appeal is a reson to vote for a presidential candidate. I can't get past the fear that no matter who follows Bush as president they're going to be totally screwed with so much mess on their hands. The worry that if the next president is independent or democratic, they will be seen as a failure and we'll go through another 2 year republican term after that. __________________ Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. - Oscar Wilde
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10-04-2007, 11:54 AM	#10
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	That brings up an interesting point, Snow. If a dem is elected, I wonder how much their own difficulties will be blamed - whether by them or their supporters - on the Bush Presidency. The President doesn't exist in his (her) own Presidential bubble, but is obviously affected by the policies of the predecessor. That being said, I have rarely (if ever) been permitted on this board to get away with saying "Bush has problem B because of how Clinton dealt with situation A". Rather, there has been a "happens/happened on his watch" sort of mentality, and i wonder if I'll get away with a "happens/happened on the dem's watch" attitude, or if anyone that doesn't let me get away with it will try it with a dem President.
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