The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Interesting question...

I read this the other day:

The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack. Current and former American military and intelligence officials said that Air Force planning groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority groups. The officials say that President Bush is determined to deny the Iranian regime the opportunity to begin a pilot program, planned for this spring, to enrich uranium.

Source
What do you make of it? I'm not an avid New Yorker reader. Someone forwarded this to me.

[scaeagles]

I could post a link to John Kerry discussing a deep cover op by name during some senate hearings. That didn't result in anything.

I find myself being less and less of a Bush supporter (I have 4 big things that are a must, and right now he is failing mightily in two and the another of the four he is not doing well enough....for those that know me, take a guess as to what I'm referring to) but this whole Plame thing is ridiculous to me. I could discuss reasons as to why, but it's all been hashed out many times before here and it would lead to a grand debate of unbending and unchangable opinions on this issue.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I could post a link to John Kerry discussing a deep cover op by name during some senate hearings. That didn't result in anything.

Sources please.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

...but this whole Plame thing is ridiculous to me...

So, outing a CIA operative, destroying her operation, endangering the people she was working with, and lessing our intelligence effectiveness - all in the name of petty political revenge - is ok with you? Alrighty then.

BTW, do you know what she was doing (in part)? Keeping watch on Iran's nuclear capabilities. Kinda ironic, huh?

[Alex]

Before he provides the source, if indeed John Kerry did what scaeagles says he did, will you support whatever punishment you feel is appropriate for Bush against Kerry? Or will you find a way to justify what the guy you like did while condemning the guy you don't like/

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Before he provides the source, if indeed John Kerry did what scaeagles says he did, will you support whatever punishment you feel is appropriate for Bush against Kerry?

Yes, absolutely – if he had done what Bush did.

According to the info Scaeagle posted, it was a totally different situation. Kerry (and a Republican Senator... Scaeagle conveniently left him off of his original post) didn’t “out” him. He had been outed as a CIA operative 2 years earlier. And, they didn’t do so in an attempt to punish a family member of his. It wasn’t done maliciously for political and personal gain. A big difference, in my book.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Kerry (and a Republican Senator... Scaeagle conveniently left him off of his original post) didn’t “out” him.

Yawn....if my motivation was partisan, I could have very easily clipped his name out of the NY Times clip. I am no fan of Richard Lugar.

We can argue about who was covert, who did what was worse (even with the CIA specifically requesting he not be named), blah blah blah. All I know is that with all these "revelations" about leaks, etc, Fitzgerald hasn't found squat except to say that Libby was withholding and/or misrepresenting information, and even some of that has had to be revised by Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald corrects part of court filing

Yawn.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Sources please.

This is a clip from an article in the NY Times. I have not linked to it because it is a subscription site.

We referred to this other analyst at the C.I.A., whom I'll try and call Mr. Smith here," Mr. Bolton said. "I hope I can keep that straight."

Mr. Bolton could. But two senators - Richard G. Lugar, the Indiana Republican and committee chairman, and John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat - apparently could not. Both identified the analyst, Fulton T. Armstrong, in the hearing.

Though Mr. Armstrong had been identified in news reports two years ago about his dispute with other officials over intelligence involving Cuba, that was when he was the national intelligence officer for Latin America, and his name was no secret. When the Bolton nomination resurrected the old accounts, however, the C.I.A. asked news organizations to withhold his name.

Originally Posted by JWBear

So, outing a CIA operative, destroying her operation, endangering the people she was working with, and lessing our intelligence effectiveness - all in the name of petty political revenge - is ok with you? Alrighty then.

I disagree with the premise of what you are saying for a wide variety of reasons. Should that be what happened, I would agree with you. I do not agree that this is what happened.

However, old news. I realize you are new to this on this board, JW, but it has been discussed here ad infinitum.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

So, outing a CIA operative, destroying her operation, endangering the people she was working with, and lessing our intelligence effectiveness - all in the name of petty political revenge - is ok with you? Alrighty then.

What! I'm sure Libby must be lying! He must be! He's not saying what we want him to say! (please note the sarcasm)

Libby Says Bush, Cheney Didn't Authorize CIA Agent's Name Leak

"A former top administration official said President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney authorized him to discuss with reporters intelligence on Iraq's weapons program and didn't authorize leaking a CIA agent's name."

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

but this whole Plame thing is ridiculous to me.

agreed- it is totally ridiculous.

#1- she was not covert
#2- her and her husband are liars- confirmed by a senate report


I have never seen so many people want to believe the pure BS spewed by Wilson and Plame. The desire to "get Bush" outweighs any kind of rational thought about it. If the media says it, it must be true.....let's ignore anything else that contradicts it.

The Senate report contradicts much of what Wilson said-
Link

Starting on page 39.

(edited to add- what Leo said)

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

#1- she was not covert

Not according to this:

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion.