The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 9

BarTopDancer · 04-12-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Out of curiosity, how many fewer? Would having just one do? You cut back on politicians and they get replaced by bureaucrats.

Term limits are also a bad idea because they shift power from the person to the party.

In other words, my view is that we don't need to reduce or limit politicians but simply reduce or limit what government is allowed to do. I don't really care if there are 536 politicians making decisions about defense but I do care if there is one politician making decisions about what I can put in my body.

Your view would work too.

If we had less people in office spending time trying to figure out how to cater to whatever group will get them re-elected we may get some actual work done. Or have less fruitless bills and laws trying to micromanage our lives.

scaeagles · 04-12-2006, 01:40 PM

It's politics. Of course people try to undermine the leadership of the other party.

As any good liar knows (not that I claim to be a good liar), what makes your lies more effective is if you mix them with partial truths. Or only tell part of the story. As an example, you tried to accuse me of withholding the name of Lugar in an attempt to tell only half the story (though clearly as I introduced the name of Lugar in the clip this was not the case).

Many things WIlson said were true. Many things Wilson said were not the complete story. Many things Wilson said were lies.

Again, I honestly feel a bit sorry for you in that you've missed these discussions on the board from long ago. To me anyway, and I would guess it is to Scrooge and many others, it isn't worth going through it all again when it is quite easy for all of us to find stories and quotes and opinion pieces that agree with the point of view in question, and the opinions here are not likely to change from it all being hashed out again.

BarTopDancer · 04-12-2006, 01:51 PM

Random thought about politics.

Debate can be fun.

Yelling, screaming, talking down to people or attacking them will never change anyones mind. In fact it will make them more set in their beliefs.

scaeagles · 04-12-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Yelling, screaming, talking down to people or attacking them will never change anyones mind. In fact it will make them more set in their beliefs.

Screw that, you moron! I'll MAKE you see it my way!

BarTopDancer · 04-12-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Screw that, you moron! I'll MAKE you see it my way!

How dare you imply that I'm a terrorist because I wish you a never ending ride on IASW!

Nephythys · 04-12-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Random thought about politics.

Debate can be fun.

Yelling, screaming, talking down to people or attacking them will never change anyones mind. In fact it will make them more set in their beliefs.

Is this where I get to call people mentally twisted and throw bugs at you to make you cave into my way of seeing things?

Talk about random- did you notce that I agree with you. Not everything is divided by a political gap......we DO need less career politicians!

Scrooge McSam · 04-12-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Is this where I get to call people mentally twisted and throw bugs at you to make you cave into my way of seeing things?

Could you please? I'm beginning to miss my old "

Mentally Twisted

" signature.

scaeagles · 04-12-2006, 01:55 PM

Random political thought:

John McCain is a moron. At a recent speech, speaking of the need for illegal labor (and his bill for turning them all into guest workers), he said that no American would take $50/hour to pick lettuce in Yuma for the season. He even offered to pay it.

Should he come through on his offer, he'll spend his wife's fortune pretty quickly. I know a whole lot of Americans who would take $50 to pick lettuce for a month (or however long the season is).

Nephythys · 04-12-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Random political thought:

John McCain is a moron. At a recent speech, speaking of the need for illegal labor (and his bill for turning them all into guest workers), he said that no American would take $50/hour to pick lettuce in Yuma for the season. He even offered to pay it.

Should he come through on his offer, he'll spend his wife's fortune pretty quickly. I know a whole lot of Americans who would take $50 to pick lettuce for a month (or however long the season is).

Hell yes! I'll sign up, and make my kids work illegally too!

Alex- can you explain this more?

Quote:

Term limits are also a bad idea because they shift power from the person to the party.

Alex · 04-12-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Alex- can you explain this more?

Politics is not an easy game to play (as much as we'd like it to be; but it is made difficult by the fact that we want politicians to ignore special interests except our own) and it takes a lot of time and energy to build the networks and power that allow you to get things done.

With term limits, the politician himself is not really able to develop that power (and what is the point of another person putting a lot of capital into supporting a person who will just be gone in a few years anyway?) and they have to rely on a party to provide it. Instead it is better to scratch the back of the party and let the party scratch back than to scratch the back of the politician and have nobody scratching back in a couple years (and to say that all decisions in politics should be altruistic is the same as saying dark chocolate should fall from the sky on Sundays as a sign of benevolence from our lord savior).

Also, term limits are an embodiment of the idea that there is no such thing as "the best person for the job." That anybody can do it and the most important thing is that as many people as possible cycle through. If Person A really is the most effective person for whatever people want "a senator" to be, why should they be forced to replace him with inferior Person B after a few years? And if you're Person A and want to be involved in getting things done, which is better to be the senator or to be the person at the party who gets to pick and control senators?

Now, there nothing wrong with moving all power to the party instead of the person (most representative democracies work under this method and they generally work fine) but it isn't the way we're set up so if we're going to do it we should do it explicitly and rewrite the constitution.

04-12-2006, 01:40 PM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	It's politics. Of course people try to undermine the leadership of the other party. As any good liar knows (not that I claim to be a good liar), what makes your lies more effective is if you mix them with partial truths. Or only tell part of the story. As an example, you tried to accuse me of withholding the name of Lugar in an attempt to tell only half the story (though clearly as I introduced the name of Lugar in the clip this was not the case). Many things WIlson said were true. Many things Wilson said were not the complete story. Many things Wilson said were lies. Again, I honestly feel a bit sorry for you in that you've missed these discussions on the board from long ago. To me anyway, and I would guess it is to Scrooge and many others, it isn't worth going through it all again when it is quite easy for all of us to find stories and quotes and opinion pieces that agree with the point of view in question, and the opinions here are not likely to change from it all being hashed out again.
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04-12-2006, 01:51 PM	#3
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	Random thought about politics. Debate can be fun. Yelling, screaming, talking down to people or attacking them will never change anyones mind. In fact it will make them more set in their beliefs. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
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04-12-2006, 01:55 PM	#8
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Random political thought: John McCain is a moron. At a recent speech, speaking of the need for illegal labor (and his bill for turning them all into guest workers), he said that no American would take $50/hour to pick lettuce in Yuma for the season. He even offered to pay it. Should he come through on his offer, he'll spend his wife's fortune pretty quickly. I know a whole lot of Americans who would take $50 to pick lettuce for a month (or however long the season is).
	Submit to Quotes