Israel, Lebanon, and Gaza

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Sometimes you just have to fight for it with those who don't want it.

Yes, that's been working quite well in Iraq.

[scaeagles]

This makes the assumption that you can control actions beyond your own. You cannot. Should groups wish to war with me and will not get along with me, no matter how I try to get along with them, it matters not. To have peace, then, I must go to war to stop them from warring with me against my wishes.

If they refuse to live at peace with me, I must then go to war to achieve peace. Therefore, peace through war is often necessary.

Two of our major allies, being Japan and Germany, 60 years ago were our biggest enemies. We now have incredible peace with them because we conquered them when they did not wish to live at peace with us.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Two of our major allies, being Japan and Germany, 60 years ago were our biggest enemies. We now have incredible peace with them because we conquered them when they did not wish to live at peace with us.

But if they had wished to live in peace with us we woudln't have had to conquer them to begin with.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

But if they had wished to live in peace with us we woudln't have had to conquer them to begin with.

Correct. However, we cannot make anyone live at peace with us who doesn't want to except by conquering them. They didn't want to. So we had to go to war to have the effect of peace. Therefore, peace through war isn't only possible, it's proven.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Correct. However, we cannot make anyone live at peace with us who doesn't want to except by conquering them. They didn't want to. So we had to go to war to have the effect of peace. Therefore, peace through war isn't only possible, it's proven.

I wasn't suggesting that anyone make anyone live in peace. And I think that living in peace is impossible for the human race. But if people could just get along and respect other people and their points of view there would be no war.

Imagine - John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

[scaeagles]

Hmmm....I don't think I said every war results in immediate peace. I said it is sometimes necessary to fight to achieve peace and has happened throughout history.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Hmmm....I don't think I said every war results in immediate peace. I said it is sometimes necessary to fight to achieve peace and has happened throughout history.

And I'm just saying that sometimes war doesn't acheive peace. Sometimes, it just makes things dreadfully worse.

[scaeagles]

I never said it did. All I did was respond to the "fighting for peace is like fvcknig for virginity" comment. It isn't as ridiculous as that. Sometimes is has to happen that way.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

What scaeagles said!

Yes, war sucks and should be avoided when ever and where ever possible. But believe it or not, there are some genuinely evil and/or insane people out there. No quantity of drum circle beating, sage burning, pot-smoking, and folk song singing will get them to listen to pleas for non-violence. Deal with it or be destroyed.

[DreadPirateRoberts]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

What scaeagles said!

Yes, war sucks and should be avoided when ever and where ever possible. But believe it or not, there are some genuinely evil and/or insane people out there. No quantity of drum circle beating, sage burning, pot-smoking, and folk song singing will get them to listen to pleas for non-violence. Deal with it or be destroyed.

This reminds me of Morrigoon's signature:

"It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge