Israel, Lebanon, and Gaza

[scaeagles]

Not sure I follow that, GC.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Not sure I follow that, GC.

It feels like when leaders of countries are motivated by religious belief, that there are more wars. You know, like the Crusades etc. I always felt that the source behind religion is enlightenment and healing and paths to heaven and all that. But the disagreement of what is and isn't right leads to fighting. That's kind of sad.

Like Bush. He said God put him there. But he's also said that he's a war president. In fact, in his war on terror, he used the word crusade to describe what we were doing.

People don't like to touch the subject of religion when it comes to 9/11, but wasn't that a key factor in why it happened?

I'm just thinking out loud after reading this whole thread. That's all...

[Alex]

Religion has certainly been the cause of many wars, but I don't now that you can make an argument it produces more wars.

Excessive nationalism and ethnocentrism, at least over the last 200 years has been far more frequently the primary cause of wars.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Religion has certainly been the cause of many wars, but I don't now that you can make an argument it produces more wars.

Excessive nationalism and ethnocentrism, at least over the last 200 years has been far more frequently the primary cause of wars.

I hear ya.

[scaeagles]

Is the current situation in Israel and the region more racial or religious? Do radical Islamicists want to eradicate Israel because they hate Judaism or they hate Jews? If a Jew converted to Islam, would that be OK with a radical Islamicist, or would that Jew still need to be eradicated?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Is the current situation in Israel and the region more racial or religious? Do radical Islamicists want to eradicate Israel because they hate Judaism or they hate Jews? If a Jew converted to Islam, would that be OK with a radical Islamicist, or would that Jew still need to be eradicated?

I have no idea.

[Alex]

I imagine the various groups would have different answers. Some would be accepting of honest religious conversion (as the religion has been since the beginning) while others would still object to a separate national identity based on the ethnic identity of Jews. The resistance by Palestinians has never been fought on explicitly religious grounds but rather on geographic grounds; conversion would not remove that problem. Then other groups would still object since the conversion likely wouldnt be to the proper brand of Islam.

I think that's a large part of why the problem is so intractable. There are vastly different motivations for the violence and they're all knotted up such that there aren't any simple solutions and simply cutting the Gordian Knot doesn't make anybody happy either.

[scaeagles]

I suppose the problem is that diplomacy takes time. Diplomacy is often used as a delaying tactic, as is the case with Iran and their nuclear ambitions. So trying every diplomatic tactic is not practical and can be counterproductive to your goal.

[scaeagles]

I would suggest a nutjob is running Iran as well.

N. Korea gained nuclear capability through appeasement. It is the textbook case on why the appeasement of loud threats is not in the best interest of the appeasers.

Some would have us appease Iran. Not that I completely disagree with Alex's view on self determination in term sof seeking nclear capability, but continued appeasement will result in them having nukes. Assuming we don't want them to have nukes, action is necessary. Diplomacy will not deter them, and they have made that clear.

So then, WB, are you saying you would support military action in Iran to prevent them from acquiring the power N Korea does?

[innerSpaceman]

That was actually pretty helpful.