"Liberal Queer"

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Well, I'll admit you might not be the right one to bounce that idea off of.

LOL- no kidding! (CP- I also don't eat ice cream )

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I was not aware that happiness required the right to marry

No, but various legal protections do.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Well, for many people it becomes a moment of, "Oh wait, you mean that these aren't evil people and the downfall of society?"

That's one of the larger reasons behind being visibly gay - people might see us and realize that we are not what they had been told. We are people, just like anybody else, just who we love is different. You get to know your neighbor, and you like them, and when they turn out to be gay, it's not what you were told "they" were like. Suddenly "they" have a face. So you have to either believe your loved neighbor is suddenly a bad person, or you recognize that maybe the propeganda was wrong. We hope people start to see that the propeganda is incorrect.

I'm not sure quite what it is that is supposed to be so wrong, but whatever.

Why does homophobia hurt so much? Yes, it's only one characteristic, but for me it's a fairly large one. Not a primary one, but it's high on the list. It *does* help define who I am, and for someone to attack me for it, hurts. I can't decide if it's good or bad that for me it's not a choice (though I've had it argued both ways). It isn't a choice, though I wouldn't change this even if I did have a chance. I like me.

**hugs**
-kerry, babbling some...

[MouseWife]

I think it hurts, and I am only going by my own relationship with my now husband where in the beginning we were made to feel as if we were doing something terribly wrong being together~

It hurts because, while that is only a part of you, it is the intimate part of you. Something no one should have the right to judge. Something you have every right to feel just as you wish, naturally and wholly.

It is what is in your heart and soul and no one has the right to enter those places with malice and judgement.

Tolerance isn't what we need, it is acceptance.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

I can't decide if it's good or bad that for me it's not a choice (though I've had it argued both ways).

Yeah, that's an ugly argument either way, and proving either true will disuade no one. On the "nature" side you have "We were born like this, why should we be judged and ridiculed for how we were born," vs., "People with genetic diseases are born that way too, so should we just let them be without intervention as well?" And on the "nurture" side you have, "America is about freedom of choice, if it doesn't affect other people then you have no right to legislate," vs., "Since it is a 'choice' and therefore influenced by your environment, then it's our moral reponsibility to not promote an environment that promotes immoral choices."

So in the end, whether it's genetic or environmental is completely moot as the dichotomy runs far deeper than that.

[just to be perfectly clear, nothing stated above represents my view point on anything. They are just examples of the divisive stances that people take on all sides of the issue, no matter what the facts are]

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Absolutely, GD.

I'm not sure if it is genetic or environmental or a combination of both. I just know that it wasn't a choice that I consciously made. Quite the opposite in fact, I did everything in my power to try to be straight (for way too long). It wasn't possible to do that and have any semblence of a happy life though. Most importantly, it wouldn't have been fair to the other person and it wouldn't have been fair to me.

As is often mentioned, I don't think that anyone who is straight would have any better luck than I did at changing their sexual orientation. We are attracted to who we are attracted to, period.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Oh, and alphabassettgrrl, that was a wonderful post.

[wendybeth]

Our family member moved clear across the country, after trying to be married, etc, and it not working out. She did everything she could to sublimate herself, and then she gave up her family, job and friends and moved far way. She finally came out a few years ago, and after the initial surprise things settled down remarkably fast. She's been with her partner for over eight years, and that person is now family to us.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

It's always nice to hear about someone who's life takes a turn for the better after coming out. Thanks for sharing, Wendy.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

It's always nice to hear about someone who's life takes a turn for the better after coming out. Thanks for sharing, Wendy.

Even though my life was disastrous after I initially came out, I'm glad I did it. In the end, it improved my life and helped me sift out the garbage people that were no good for me.