Religious Freedom

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Exactly what I was trying to say, H. You may be alcoholic before you have your first drink, or it may develope over time as you continue drinking and your body begins to chemically process alcohol differently. But, you need alcohol to become an alcoholic. You can BE gay and never actually have acted on it.

Umm, you completely contradicted yourself. "You may be alcoholic before your fist drink" "You need alcohol to become an alcoholic." Which is it?

But again, it's not even about the specifics as things called "diseases" vary GREATLY between being born already exhibiting it, being born with 100% chance of exhibiting it later in life, to being born with a predisposition to exhibit it if the right (or wrong) event triggers it, etc., etc. So whether homosexuality is exactly like alcoholism is irrelevant.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

I think what NA means, and I am no way speaking for her, IMHO, is the addiction is there. Addiction to the alcohol, or it could be drugs or smoking, whatever the vice is. People are born with that somewhere in them, just like maybe being Gay or being attracted to redheads or hating Democrats or roadrage. It's part of personality that pops into us whenever one belives we become a "person."

IMHO. My .02.

[Not Afraid]

Let me try this again.

With alcoholism, you may be physically have the inability to process alcohol like a normal person, but without alcohol, you would never know you are an alcoholic. It is just a malfunction of your body that never gets triggered because you never ingest the substance it takes to trigger it. Once you ingest alcohol, the "whatever physical thing happens in your body" begins to take place. In some people, the process happens slowly, in others they become full-blown alcoholics almost immediately. But, often it is a progressive disease.

Now, take out alcoholism and replace the appropriate words with gay definitions. There are huge differences. You don't become gay over time. You may beceome more accepting of being gay over time, but your condition doesn't get "worse".

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Now, take out alcoholism and replace the appropriate words with gay definitions. There are huge differences. You don't become gay over time. You may beceome more accepting of being gay over time, but your condition doesn't get "worse".

I don't know that there's enough evidence to make that claim.

[Not Afraid]

I'm going to state my bias that alcoholism is a disease that an alcoholic can be given a reprieve from thru various forms of treatment. I will never believe, nor aligh myself, with the religious that believe that being gay can be cured. Being gay is a natural part of who a person is. Being an alcoholic is a mutation of who a person was.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I'm going to state my bias that alcoholism is a disease that an alcoholic can be given a reprieve from thru various forms of treatment. I will never believe, nor aligh myself, with the religious that believe that being gay can be cured. Being gay is a natural part of who a person is. Being an alcoholic is a mutation of who a person was.

Hmm. If they ever manage to conclusively prove that being gay is genetic, than we most certainly CAN "cure" it. SHOULD is a different question, one you obviously know my response to. But for that very reason, that identifying a genetic cause would define a path to a "cure", the "disease" context is one I would prefer to be kept far away from the debate. Way too much danger of the bigots dancing for joy at the discovery of the "cure".

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I'm going to state my bias that alcoholism is a disease that an alcoholic can be given a reprieve from thru various forms of treatment. I will never believe, nor aligh myself, with the religious that believe that being gay can be cured. Being gay is a natural part of who a person is. Being an alcoholic is a mutation of who a person was.

I agree. I've known many alcoholics and NA has it right one.

The part about the self destructive behaviour and all, the thought that both can be {being gay and being an alcoholic}. Well, I think a person who is self destructive and gay is such because society has made them ashamed of who they are and they can not deal with the pain brought upon them.

Accepting an alcoholic will only lead their their demise and normally the destruction of a familys foundation.

Totally my opinion but also totally from experience as well.

I don't think people fully understand either issue. And, I have to say, I don't completely either.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Hmm. If they ever manage to conclusively prove that being gay is genetic, than we most certainly CAN "cure" it. SHOULD is a different question, one you obviously know my response to. But for that very reason, that identifying a genetic cause would define a path to a "cure", the "disease" context is one I would prefer to be kept far away from the debate. Way too much danger of the bigots dancing for joy at the discovery of the "cure".

Which is why I hate hate hate the argument that being gay is genetic. Especially since there is no basis for it.

One other thought about alcoholism vs homosexuality. Alcoholism is a progressive disease that gets worse, never better. There is no cure, only a daily reprieve. Being gay is not a progressive that leads to self-distructive behaviour and severe illness and death.

(And, anyone, regardless of their sexual preference can use that preference for self distructive behaviour. I was not opening that door. That is not really something that is unique to homosexuals.)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

(And, anyone, regardless of their sexual preference can use that preference for self distructive behaviour. I was not opening that door. That is not really something that is unique to homosexuals.)

Yes, I agree-- that's why I used "sexual" and not "homosexual" in the post above yours.

But I have to say that everything's really rather genetic. And once we learn to manipulate genetics, there are a lot of 'diseases' that we could 'cure.' Skin pigment. Nose size. And so on. That's why, other than healing actual medical conditions (cancer, MS, etc) I think the idea of 'healing' anything genetically is rather inadvisable.

[tracilicious]

You guys are hilarious. WHy this argument about what it is to be gay between lots of people that are ok with being gay? My original point was that to the extremely religious, acting alcoholic is a sin and acting gay is a sin. End of story.