did John Kerry just call soldiers stupid? - Page 11

Nephythys · 11-02-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

As long as there are people who would rather approach things as "Liberal issues" vs. "Conservative issues" rather than "Issues", no.

I don't think that will ever change.

Nephythys · 11-02-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Fair point, Neph.

The Christian willingness to go to war has always perplexed me.

Better?

No-because it makes the assumption that non-Christians are not willing to go to war and that is also an untrue blanket statement.

Ghoulish Delight · 11-02-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

No-because it makes the assumption that non-Christians are not willing to go to war and that is also an untrue blanket statement.

Where does it imply that? Seriously, where? He says he is perplexed by Christians that are willing to go to war. That statement has NOTHING to do with non-Christians.

Nephythys · 11-02-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Where does it imply that? Seriously, where? He says he is perplexed by Christians that are willing to go to war. That statement has NOTHING to do with non-Christians.

Why is it a Christian willingness to go to war- I don't see that anywhere either. That is a mocked up construction in the minds of some people- not based on anything or anyone I know.

So - what about Non-Christians willingness to go to war- seems just as relevant.

JWBear · 11-02-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Why is it a Christian willingness to go to war- I don't see that anywhere either. That is a mocked up construction in the minds of some people- not based on anything or anyone I know.

So - what about Non-Christians willingness to go to war- seems just as relevant.

Not at all. STC made a valid point. Why are so many people who purport to follow the teaching of Christ so pro war? It seems to me that war is the antithesis of Christ’s teachings.

Then again… actually following what Christ said has never been all that popular among most Christians, so it’s not all that surprising IMO.

Ghoulish Delight · 11-02-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Why is it a Christian willingness to go to war- I don't see that anywhere either. That is a mocked up construction in the minds of some people- not based on anything or anyone I know.

So - what about Non-Christians willingness to go to war- seems just as relevant.

It's not relevant because the comment that spawned the discussion is how willingness to go to war can jive with claiming to believe the teaching of Jesus. Yes, there are people who aren't Christian who are willing to go to war, but that's not relevant to the question of, "If you believe in Jesus's teachings of peace, how can you support war?"

That's a discussion I'm not going to take part in, but that's the discussion Sac wants to have. Simply saying, "Well, other people want to go to war" is not answering the question posed.

Nephythys · 11-02-2006, 10:43 AM

I did not say that GD- I never said "well other people want to go to war."

What were you saying about let's pay attention what Kerry ACTUALLY said- not an "interpretation" of it?

Ghoulish Delight · 11-02-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

What were you saying about let's pay attention what Kerry ACTUALLY said- not an "interpretation" of it?

That's EXACTLY what you said. The question was, "Why would Christians, who believe in the teachings of Jesus, be willing to go to war," and your response was, "What about Non-Christians who are willing to go to war?" Can't be any clearer.

MouseWife · 11-02-2006, 10:54 AM

Using a quote of Kerry's:

Quote:
In 1972, as he ran for the House, he was less apologetic in his comments about the merits of a volunteer army. He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema."

"I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job."

I have to say, I can't believe he said this because he is white and priveledged. Not because I don't see truth in it. It's rare to hear someone admit to such things. Some people seem to turn a blind eye and think everything is just great.

It has been many years since Vietnam and I've had many conversations with 'the poor, black and brown'. They feel like they were thrown out to the front lines. They were used.

I think they feel this way now as well.

And, the recruiters are making their quotas because the economy is so fvcked up. What do they have? {the majority, sure, some join because it is their life long dream to follow in their fathers footsteps} They are offered medical, dental, room and board. What do they get if they stay at home? The average high school grad must live at home to make it. Work and get benefits? Not likely.

Bush was talking about how people were complaining there was no work. He proudly brought up this woman who, Wow, she has two jobs! WTF?? Is that a good thing? How blind can he be?

And yes, you are right, I forgot about ROTC. And, I do recall other schools around here having the recruiters visiting the campus regularly. But, this flyer I received specifically stated these schools and I don't get why the military needs to be involved because the schools are under achieving? All of the schools on the list are full of Spanish speaking students, either from here or transported across daily. That surely fits in with brown, black, and poor.

Nephythys · 11-02-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

That's EXACTLY what you said. The question was, "Why would Christians, who believe in the teachings of Jesus, be willing to go to war," and your response was, "What about Non-Christians who are willing to go to war?" Can't be any clearer.

That's rich.

I did not say- "well other people want to go to war" - I just turned the question from the so-called Christian willingness to go to war- and asked if there was a Non-Christian willingness to go to war.

I can't begin to imagine how you can tell me what I meant and insist it is clear and accurate- yet turn around and insist that everyone who thought what Kerry said was outrageous and inappropriate are all wrong.

11-02-2006, 10:43 AM	#107
Nephythys Yeah, that's about it- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a state of constant crap to get done Posts: 2,688	I did not say that GD- I never said "well other people want to go to war." What were you saying about let's pay attention what Kerry ACTUALLY said- not an "interpretation" of it?
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11-02-2006, 10:54 AM	#109
MouseWife Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Da' Beach Posts: 2,957	Using a quote of Kerry's: Quote: In 1972, as he ran for the House, he was less apologetic in his comments about the merits of a volunteer army. He declared in the questionnaire that he opposed the draft but considered a volunteer army "a greater anathema." "I am convinced a volunteer army would be an army of the poor and the black and the brown," Kerry wrote. "We must not repeat the travesty of the inequities present during Vietnam. I also fear having a professional army that views the perpetuation of war crimes as simply 'doing its job." I have to say, I can't believe he said this because he is white and priveledged. Not because I don't see truth in it. It's rare to hear someone admit to such things. Some people seem to turn a blind eye and think everything is just great. It has been many years since Vietnam and I've had many conversations with 'the poor, black and brown'. They feel like they were thrown out to the front lines. They were used. I think they feel this way now as well. And, the recruiters are making their quotas because the economy is so fvcked up. What do they have? {the majority, sure, some join because it is their life long dream to follow in their fathers footsteps} They are offered medical, dental, room and board. What do they get if they stay at home? The average high school grad must live at home to make it. Work and get benefits? Not likely. Bush was talking about how people were complaining there was no work. He proudly brought up this woman who, Wow, she has two jobs! WTF?? Is that a good thing? How blind can he be? And yes, you are right, I forgot about ROTC. And, I do recall other schools around here having the recruiters visiting the campus regularly. But, this flyer I received specifically stated these schools and I don't get why the military needs to be involved because the schools are under achieving? All of the schools on the list are full of Spanish speaking students, either from here or transported across daily. That surely fits in with brown, black, and poor. __________________ Summa' time....when the livins' easy.........
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