All About McCain - Page 11

JWBear · 08-25-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

I am sure Alex will correct me here if I am wrong but didn't Truman not know how to use a telephone?

Source?

BarTopDancer · 08-25-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

I am sure Alex will correct me here if I am wrong but didn't Truman not know how to use a telephone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

How about a better analogy: A President that doesn't know how to read a newspaper.

I think the telephone analogy fits as well. In this age, not knowing how to use the internet, or a computer shows how out of touch with reality one is. He doesn't need to know how to program a website, but he should know how to access email, the media and do basic web searches.

Alex · 08-25-2008, 01:03 PM

At this point in time I would have some serious doubts about a surgeon who claimed to have zero familiarity with the internet. Even in that profession it has become a near vital source of access to current information.

If they're still relying solely on print journals then I would question their currency within their field.

I actually care far less about a president's familiarity with and use of the internet. As an information resource the president, more than probably any other person on the planet has hundreds of people who sole purpose in life is to get him whatever information he needs at any particular time.

In terms of policy, I think it is far enough down the food chain of expertise that I'm not bothered by what the president knows or doesn't know himself and am more ok with worrying about who he appoints as his proxy for the issues. Similarly, I don't care if the president knows much about space science, research, and programs. I'll care who it looks like he'd appoint to NASA and various other governmental research groups.

Ghoulish Delight · 08-25-2008, 01:12 PM

I disagree. As BtD says, it's not about a lack of knowledge about the technology or about policies regarding the technology that bothers me about McCain being completely internet ignorant. It's not even about not himself being able to actively communicate with it. To me, it really is the equivalent of a Presidential candidate saying, "I've never picked up a newspaper in my life." It paints a picture of someone entirely out of touch with the country he's trying to lead, making decisions for all of us without even an inkling of what any of our lives are actually like.

McCain is 3rd generation military. He has essentially never had to provide for himself. Nor had his father. Nor did his grandfather. I find that a life even more out of touch with the average American than George Walker Silver Spoon Bush. His family has not, for generations, seen a medical bill, an education bill, had to worry about a mortgage. His disconnection from the single most vital communication tool on the planet right now is just another symptom of that.

I'm not saying that makes him a bad human being or citizen. I am saying it is not the kind of person I consider to be qualified as President.

Alex · 08-25-2008, 01:19 PM

I simply disagree with you. In fact, I'd turn it around and argue that you're overestimating the importance of the internet in the average American's life.

Not using it may make him disconnected from your reality (and mine) but I don't think it is a huge disconnect from the average person's. And among elderly professional types it really isn't a disconnect.

For a huge amount of people the internet remains essentially nothing but a new channel of entertainment. So I think a closer equivalent (for the average American reality) would be saying "I don't really watch TV" which wouldn't be regarded as all that shocking.

Now, that is not to say that he is well connected to the life experience of an average American. I just don't think the internet is a vital part of such a connection.

Ghoulish Delight · 08-25-2008, 01:25 PM

I'm not necessarily saying that using the internet is part of the average American's life. All I'm saying is that the internet, and particularly the affect on how information is disseminated globally, has a marked impact on on the average American's life. And, more importantly, it's having a major impact on world culture at a level that the President should be aware. Whether or not a President or the average American is using the internet, the result of any action taken by the President is shaped in part by how it is received, distributed, and perceived on the internet. The course of world-changing events has already been altered by how it's gotten exposed online. For a President to be completely cut off from that speaks to a level of ignorance of the world, in my eyes.

Alex · 08-25-2008, 01:32 PM

And what has McCain said about the internet? That he doesn't use it or that he doesn't know anything about it? I'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular comment.

But still, in regard to the responsibilities of the presidency I just don't much care beyond the level of his proxies.

sleepyjeff · 08-25-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear

Source?

I looked and looked and looked and couldn't find a source.....until I remembered one key factor

I got the wrong President

It was Eisenhower, not Truman, who didn't know how to use a telephone(Ike came in after Truman so that's even worse when you think about it).

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0711/p09s02-coop.html

I think he did ok for some old guy who never placed a phone call while in office.

Really, this whole internet thing is beyond silly......it's not like John can't bowl or anything

Strangler Lewis · 08-25-2008, 01:44 PM

I don't especially believe him when he says he's never used the internet. (Where does he get his porn?) I think he's reaching out to my mother and striking a pose in opposition to Obama's pose of hipness.

If it is true, I suppose I find it somewhat troubling that McCain has never used the internet. On the other hand, I own no video game consoles, and I hope that doesn't detract from my political viability or perception of my surgical skills. Further, to my mind, the lamest thing in this arena was Obama's big decision to announce his VP choice by text message, as if that somehow showed he was ahead of the curve in any meaningful way.

Alex · 08-25-2008, 01:51 PM

While the Obama campaign (I don't necessarily credit this to Obama himself) has made amazing use of the internet as a tool, I think there's a reason the text message thing garnered so much attention despite its boringness:

It garnered attention because it touched on an area the press cares most about and therefore they talked about it the most: preferred access. The idea that a vital piece of campaign news would be distributed to the public without using the press as the intermediary is threatening to them. So it was presented with a sense of outsized importance.

08-25-2008, 01:03 PM	#103
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	At this point in time I would have some serious doubts about a surgeon who claimed to have zero familiarity with the internet. Even in that profession it has become a near vital source of access to current information. If they're still relying solely on print journals then I would question their currency within their field. I actually care far less about a president's familiarity with and use of the internet. As an information resource the president, more than probably any other person on the planet has hundreds of people who sole purpose in life is to get him whatever information he needs at any particular time. In terms of policy, I think it is far enough down the food chain of expertise that I'm not bothered by what the president knows or doesn't know himself and am more ok with worrying about who he appoints as his proxy for the issues. Similarly, I don't care if the president knows much about space science, research, and programs. I'll care who it looks like he'd appoint to NASA and various other governmental research groups.
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:12 PM	#104
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I disagree. As BtD says, it's not about a lack of knowledge about the technology or about policies regarding the technology that bothers me about McCain being completely internet ignorant. It's not even about not himself being able to actively communicate with it. To me, it really is the equivalent of a Presidential candidate saying, "I've never picked up a newspaper in my life." It paints a picture of someone entirely out of touch with the country he's trying to lead, making decisions for all of us without even an inkling of what any of our lives are actually like. McCain is 3rd generation military. He has essentially never had to provide for himself. Nor had his father. Nor did his grandfather. I find that a life even more out of touch with the average American than George Walker Silver Spoon Bush. His family has not, for generations, seen a medical bill, an education bill, had to worry about a mortgage. His disconnection from the single most vital communication tool on the planet right now is just another symptom of that. I'm not saying that makes him a bad human being or citizen. I am saying it is not the kind of person I consider to be qualified as President. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:19 PM	#105
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I simply disagree with you. In fact, I'd turn it around and argue that you're overestimating the importance of the internet in the average American's life. Not using it may make him disconnected from your reality (and mine) but I don't think it is a huge disconnect from the average person's. And among elderly professional types it really isn't a disconnect. For a huge amount of people the internet remains essentially nothing but a new channel of entertainment. So I think a closer equivalent (for the average American reality) would be saying "I don't really watch TV" which wouldn't be regarded as all that shocking. Now, that is not to say that he is well connected to the life experience of an average American. I just don't think the internet is a vital part of such a connection.
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:25 PM	#106
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I'm not necessarily saying that using the internet is part of the average American's life. All I'm saying is that the internet, and particularly the affect on how information is disseminated globally, has a marked impact on on the average American's life. And, more importantly, it's having a major impact on world culture at a level that the President should be aware. Whether or not a President or the average American is using the internet, the result of any action taken by the President is shaped in part by how it is received, distributed, and perceived on the internet. The course of world-changing events has already been altered by how it's gotten exposed online. For a President to be completely cut off from that speaks to a level of ignorance of the world, in my eyes. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:32 PM	#107
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	And what has McCain said about the internet? That he doesn't use it or that he doesn't know anything about it? I'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular comment. But still, in regard to the responsibilities of the presidency I just don't much care beyond the level of his proxies.
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:44 PM	#109
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	I don't especially believe him when he says he's never used the internet. (Where does he get his porn?) I think he's reaching out to my mother and striking a pose in opposition to Obama's pose of hipness. If it is true, I suppose I find it somewhat troubling that McCain has never used the internet. On the other hand, I own no video game consoles, and I hope that doesn't detract from my political viability or perception of my surgical skills. Further, to my mind, the lamest thing in this arena was Obama's big decision to announce his VP choice by text message, as if that somehow showed he was ahead of the curve in any meaningful way. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
	Submit to Quotes

08-25-2008, 01:51 PM	#110
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	While the Obama campaign (I don't necessarily credit this to Obama himself) has made amazing use of the internet as a tool, I think there's a reason the text message thing garnered so much attention despite its boringness: It garnered attention because it touched on an area the press cares most about and therefore they talked about it the most: preferred access. The idea that a vital piece of campaign news would be distributed to the public without using the press as the intermediary is threatening to them. So it was presented with a sense of outsized importance.
	Submit to Quotes