All About McCain - Page 116

JWBear · 10-06-2008, 08:30 AM

The ability of the populace to stand up to a tyranical government was the main reason for the second amendment.

scaeagles · 10-06-2008, 08:36 AM

You are indeed correct (oringially meant for ISM but it applies to JW as well).

Victory....my definition doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Establishment of a constitutional democracy (whether parliamentary, direct, representative, whatever) in which the elected government has the capability militarily to protect itself and the people from the overthrow of that government.

This is as far as I am comfortable defining it. Do I hope it goes beyond that? Certainly, in terms of establishing an ally and a US friendly democracy in the region.

Go ahead. Rip it apart. I'm sure it will be.

JWBear · 10-06-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

...Victory....my definition doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Establishment of a constitutional democracy (whether parliamentary, direct, representative, whatever) in which the elected government has the capability militarily to protect itself and the people from the overthrow of that government.

This is as far as I am comfortable defining it. Do I hope it goes beyond that? Certainly, in terms of establishing an ally and a US friendly democracy in the region.

Go ahead. Rip it apart. I'm sure it will be.

But, who defines what it takes to meet that goal? And who decides when it has been met? The military? Congress? The Iraqis? The President? The UN? Bush's horoscope? The casting of bones?

scaeagles · 10-06-2008, 09:17 AM

Just to briefly address one point - yes, Bush did not make good decisions. We're not talking about Bush, though, and his judgement, which is the grand strategy of Obama.....to say McCain = Bush. I don't think they are equivalent. Again, I think McCain would have run this vastly differently, as his push for the surge....18 months was it? ...before it happened.

Ghoulish Delight · 10-06-2008, 09:40 AM

Perhaps McCain may have run the war on the ground differently, I don't doubt that he would have done a far better job than Bush/Cheney at listening to the commanders rather than try to run it himself. Which is exactly what Obama will do.

I'm far more worried about the large scale world politics decisions, and in that regard, McCain is very much in line with Bush, and very much a "war first" mentality. He has demonstrated time and again that, with all the time we've been there, with all the knowledge he supposedly has by visiting Iraq, he has a very poor grasp of who the people we are fighting are. "How well do we have to know a people before we can bomb them?" John Stewart asked, facetiously, recently.

It's the job of generals to run wars. Obama can listen to generals as well as anyone. It's the job of the President to shape global policy and to understand the consequences of our country's actions beyond simply "me shoot enemy, me bigger country". McCain has not demonstrated that capacity, Obama has.

Gemini Cricket · 10-10-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin abused her power as Alaska's governor by trying to get her ex-brother-in-law fired from the state police, a state investigator's report concluded Friday."Gov. Palin knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda," the report states.
Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan's refusal to fire State Trooper Mike Wooten from the state police force was "likely a contributing factor" to Monegan's July dismissal, but Palin had the authority as governor to fire him, the report by former Anchorage prosecutor Stephen Branchflower states.

Source

wendybeth · 10-10-2008, 06:53 PM

But...but....she already cleared herself of this yesterday!

3894 · 10-11-2008, 09:13 AM

Palin issued a statement clearing and exonerating herself of any and all wrongdoing, therefore she’s cleared and exonerated, right? Pardoned by the governor of Alaska, right?

I suggest we all adopt her MO. So when the hubbo launches an investigation of just what happened to that half bag of chocolate chips that I secretly ate, I will clear, exonerate, and pardon myself.

Gemini Cricket · 10-06-2008, 09:59 AM

I was curious to read what everyone's reaction was to Obama's "Keating Economics" documentary. McCain and the Keating Five.

Is this a smart move by the Obama camp? Will this affect McCain votes?

Link to video.

***I wasn't sure whether to post it in the McCain thread or the Obama thread. So I posted it here since the subject of the doco was McCain.***

Ghoulish Delight · 10-06-2008, 10:14 AM

My reaction is that it's as much of a red herring/distortion as McCain's coming attempts to link Obama to various nefarious characters. Which makes it a very smart move. It keeps the conversation on the economy, something McCain desperately wants to change, and it serves as a perfect counterpoint to the bogus swift-boat attempts Obama's already been subject to. I don't like that he has to do it, but I think he's doing it well.

10-06-2008, 08:30 AM	#1
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	The ability of the populace to stand up to a tyranical government was the main reason for the second amendment. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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10-06-2008, 08:36 AM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	You are indeed correct (oringially meant for ISM but it applies to JW as well). Victory....my definition doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. Establishment of a constitutional democracy (whether parliamentary, direct, representative, whatever) in which the elected government has the capability militarily to protect itself and the people from the overthrow of that government. This is as far as I am comfortable defining it. Do I hope it goes beyond that? Certainly, in terms of establishing an ally and a US friendly democracy in the region. Go ahead. Rip it apart. I'm sure it will be.
	Submit to Quotes

10-06-2008, 09:17 AM	#4
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Just to briefly address one point - yes, Bush did not make good decisions. We're not talking about Bush, though, and his judgement, which is the grand strategy of Obama.....to say McCain = Bush. I don't think they are equivalent. Again, I think McCain would have run this vastly differently, as his push for the surge....18 months was it? ...before it happened.
	Submit to Quotes

10-06-2008, 09:40 AM	#5
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	Perhaps McCain may have run the war on the ground differently, I don't doubt that he would have done a far better job than Bush/Cheney at listening to the commanders rather than try to run it himself. Which is exactly what Obama will do. I'm far more worried about the large scale world politics decisions, and in that regard, McCain is very much in line with Bush, and very much a "war first" mentality. He has demonstrated time and again that, with all the time we've been there, with all the knowledge he supposedly has by visiting Iraq, he has a very poor grasp of who the people we are fighting are. "How well do we have to know a people before we can bomb them?" John Stewart asked, facetiously, recently. It's the job of generals to run wars. Obama can listen to generals as well as anyone. It's the job of the President to shape global policy and to understand the consequences of our country's actions beyond simply "me shoot enemy, me bigger country". McCain has not demonstrated that capacity, Obama has. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes

10-10-2008, 06:53 PM	#7
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	But...but....she already cleared herself of this yesterday! __________________
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10-11-2008, 09:13 AM	#8
3894 Next Stop: Funkytown! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cheeselandia Posts: 1,907	Palin issued a statement clearing and exonerating herself of any and all wrongdoing, therefore she’s cleared and exonerated, right? Pardoned by the governor of Alaska, right? I suggest we all adopt her MO. So when the hubbo launches an investigation of just what happened to that half bag of chocolate chips that I secretly ate, I will clear, exonerate, and pardon myself. __________________ "I didn't want to have to do this, but you leave me no choice. Here comes the smolder." - Flynn Rider, "Tangled"
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10-06-2008, 09:59 AM	#9
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I was curious to read what everyone's reaction was to Obama's "Keating Economics" documentary. McCain and the Keating Five. Is this a smart move by the Obama camp? Will this affect McCain votes? Link to video. *I wasn't sure whether to post it in the McCain thread or the Obama thread. So I posted it here since the subject of the doco was McCain.*
	Submit to Quotes

10-06-2008, 10:14 AM	#10
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	My reaction is that it's as much of a red herring/distortion as McCain's coming attempts to link Obama to various nefarious characters. Which makes it a very smart move. It keeps the conversation on the economy, something McCain desperately wants to change, and it serves as a perfect counterpoint to the bogus swift-boat attempts Obama's already been subject to. I don't like that he has to do it, but I think he's doing it well. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
	Submit to Quotes