Katrina Response Mismanagement

[Morrigoon]

iSm: remember what kind of Republican I am - small government. When was the last "small government" Democrat? Oh yeah... never! No wonder I don't approve of most democrat actions. That, and your legislators are whiny (man, I'd have had to throw out my tv if Lieberman got into office... 4 years of his ugly mug whining on the boob tube and I think I'd have to retreat to a Montana cabin).

But that's also why I've not been nuts about the recent Republicans. They're all Democrats with a bible thumping influence.

I want a goverment that will get the hell out of the way of business, my life, etc. I don't want them taxing me to death, or creating a prohibitive mess of regulations preventing small businessmen from entering the market (regulations have an effect of supporting the large corporations already operating), telling me who I may marry or what I may do with my own body, or giving all my hard-earned money away to someone who'll use any excuse not to work. Oh, and I'd like to see farm subsidies cut way back - if our farmers can't compete on the world market, then let's buy produce from the 3rd world countries who can produce it efficiently, and let us focus on things we do well. Besides, it'll make the economy better for those countries we buy from, which means we can send them less aid.

[innerSpaceman]

Funny, and I think all Democrats govern like Republicans.

Puts the truth to your no-difference-tween-the-parties thesis, but I don't see any change in the wind any time soon.

[lindyhop]

link

This is the emergency declaration Bush issued before Katrina, one day after the governor of LA declared a state of emergency. This authorized FEMA to coordinate efforts to deal with the storm. Despite this, the head of Homeland Security stated days later that FEMA was not in charge.

If you ran a business like this...it would be Enron.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Like or not like, I challenge any Republican to admit to approving of anything done under a democratic administration.

Just so GD doesn't jump on me, I'd like to point out that I didn't bring Clinton into this thread.

Clinton - Kosovo, NAFTA - and I didn't even have to think hard.

FDR - his handling of WWII

Beyond that....hmmm.

Carter - absolutely nothing, to be sure.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by lindyhop

link

This is the emergency declaration Bush issued before Katrina, one day after the governor of LA declared a state of emergency. This authorized FEMA to coordinate efforts to deal with the storm. Despite this, the head of Homeland Security stated days later that FEMA was not in charge.

If you ran a business like this...it would be Enron.

And Brown still has a job because....

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And Brown still has a job because....

Because the only time you lose your job in this administration is when you dare question their actions.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I have received an eye-opening account from the ground in New Orleans. This comes to me by way of a family friend who is an acquaintance of the authors, so I have very good reason to trust the source. It's a disturbing read.

The authors were attending a paramedics conference in NOLA. They, along with about 500 people who had been stuck in hotels in the French Quarter, spent 2 days trying to get out. In the process, they were refused water by the national guard, lied to by the police chief simply to move them out of his sight, shot at by police from neighboring citys because "the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City", and had their encampments purposely destroyed by the wind of helicopter blades of a chopper from said same police department.

And all they wanted to do was get out of the city, something they are now trying to force people to do.

Among all of this, they made this poignant observation:

This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began to look out for each other, working together and constructing a community.
If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness would not have set in.

Here are a couple links with the account. The second's got some commentary and a little bit of defense because the authors ARE associated with some socialist organizations, which some people feel invalidates their story.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090805A.shtml

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight...es/006754.html

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And yes, FEMA, like to admit it or not, Ms. Neph, was FANTASTIC during Clinton's terms

Well, I can sure find one hell of a lot of info to say otherwise on two pretty large hurricanes that took place during his terms - Hugo, in South Carolina, and Andrew, in Florida.

Rather than post all of the info I could find absolutely blasting FEMA for their performance during these tragedies, here's a couple quick tidbits -

From Wikipedia -
"Hugo caused $7 billion ($9.4 billion in 2000 dollars) in damage in the US (plus $3 billion in the Caribbean). At the time it was the costliest hurricane in US history, but was exceeded in 1992 by Hurricane Andrew in south Florida. In South Carolina, which bore the brunt of the storm on the continent, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was slow in responding and Senator Fritz Hollings referred to them as "a bunch of bureacratic jackasses.""

Well, reforms were made. FEMA had only been under control of the Clinton administration for 9 months. So I'll cut him a bit of a break. Then came Andrew -

"Rarely had the failure of the federal government been so apparent and so acute. On August 24, 1992, Hurricane Andrew leveled a 50-mile swath across southern Florida, leaving nearly 200,000 residents homeless and 1.3 million without electricity. Food, clean water, shelter, and medical assistance were scarce. Yet, for the first three days, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which is responsible for coordinating federal disaster relief, was nowhere to be found. And when FEMA did finally arrive, its incompetence further delayed relief efforts. Food and water distribution centers couldn't meet the overwhelming need; lines literally stretched for miles. Mobile hospitals arrived late. In everything it did, FEMA appeared to live up to the description once given to it by South Carolina Sen. Ernest Hollings: "the sorriest bunch of bureaucratic jackasses I've ever known." "

So....a few years later, FEMA didn't do much of a better job. If anyone wants me to post the NUMEROUS links to news stories of suffering and incompetence, I gladly will.

So, no - FEMA was most assuredly NOT fantastic during the Clinton years.

Do I blame Clinton? No - I blame bureaucratic government that gets ever larger as more disasters hit.

Edited to add:
I will say that I think FEMA under Clinton did a fine job in Oklahoma City. Similarly, FEMA did a great job under Bush in NY post 9/11.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I just finished a quick conversation with a coworker who's a Republican. She blames the state and city gov'ts and won't blame Bush.

Watching those that designate themselves as Reps and Dems decide just who exactly is at fault and who is blameless is really angering me. I don't want to insult anyone here from either side, but I have to say this one more time:

Everyone fvcked up, and there is blood on the hands of Dems and Reps, Feds and State, high and low, from the cops to the President. Pretending that your pet section of gov't did everything they could won't make it true.

Sorry guys, but I'm just really, really angry right now.

[Prudence]

To back up what CP said:

My father-in-law, who is so conservative he makes scaeagles and sleepyjeff look like hippies straight off the collective garlic farm, sent a long rant to my husband declaring that everyone in NO got exactly what they deserved, and that they had dozens of opportunities to evacuate, and that they should basically be left to die. Oh, and FEMA's doing a super job.