Ta Ta Jesse Helms

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Really? So if someone does something wrong, nothing good they do redeems their errors? Such as Helms work wth Bono in relations to AIDS in Africa? No redemptive value because he did not totally capitulate all of his views to align with yours?

When you can find where I said everything he did was "ok" this question may have merit.

The man was wrong. He was not evil- at least by my definition.

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Helms was a truly evil man - evil in his words and deeds. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that what he stood for is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.

Originally Posted by someone of Helms' ilk

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Gays do evil by having gay sex. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that it is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Helms was a truly evil man - evil in his words and deeds. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that what he stood for is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

I suspect your hatred of the man has impaired your ability to read what I said. I said repeatedly he stood for many things I do agree are wrong- but I do not agree that everything he did and believed was evil.

It's a disagreement of degree JW- I have no need of pity.

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I don't have hatred for him, nor am I grave dancing. I don't see any good that came from his life, except maybe to serve as a warning to others who consider intolerance acceptable.



Why don't you just ignore the thread then.

I just said I would- why the snark? And before you justify the snark by commenting on the fact that I returned to the thread- I will tell you I only came back to see what LSPE had posted- because I find her posts to be excellent and worthy of entering even a thread such as this.

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.

We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

Well stated-

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.



We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

Someone who thinks like Helms might say that, but it's a terrible analogy. Gays having gay sex hurts no one. The things Helms and is ilk said and did (and continue to say and do) are very damaging. I find comparing the two to be very insulting.

I said before that I do not celebrate his death. I'm not grave dancing. But I refuse to stop speaking out against the evils he did just because he's now dead. Death gives no one a free pass to redemption.

It is not hatred to oppose that which is wrong. I do not feel hatred for him, only disgust.

And yes, I do believe he was evil. He had a black and hate filled soul. The world is far better off without his ilk.

I do feel a great sadness that some here feel they must defend the man.

[blueerica]

I'm on the side of "why are we gravedancing?"

He's dead. Never liked him. So?

[mousepod]

Nephy, is, of course, correct. Helms was a man. He did some good things and his family and many conservatives liked, even loved him.

Here are some quotes from him.

"The New York Times and Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves. Just about every person down there is a homosexual or lesbian."

"To rob the Negro of his reputation of thinking through a problem in his own fashion is about the same as trying to pretend that he doesn't have a natural instinct for rhythm and for singing and dancing." (Helms responding in 1956 to criticism that a fictional black character in his newspaper column was offensive.)

"Homosexuals are weak, morally sick wretches."

"They should ask their parents if it would be all right for their son or daughter to marry a Negro." (In response to Duke University students holding a vigil after Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated, 1968)


"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction." (After Mexicans protested his visit in 1986)


Let's not dance on the grave of Jesse Helms. He was, in many ways, a little man. A small man with hateful notions. A teeny tiny insignificant guy, whose loudest voice was reserved for the worst of ideas. And now that sad, little, angry, pathetic, and ignorant voice has been silenced.
Goodnight, dum dum.

[Nephythys]

*sigh*

Those who are committed to reveling in hatred for him and joy in his death will not be able to see anything but the wrong things he did.

I would love to request that this thread be moved to the Grind or Parking Lot- but as it likely will not be I will simply stay out of the way of the dancers.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

*sigh*

Those who are committed to reveling in hatred for him and joy in his death will not be able to see anything but the wrong things he did.

I don't have hatred for him, nor am I grave dancing. I don't see any good that came from his life, except maybe to serve as a warning to others who consider intolerance acceptable.

I would love to request that this thread be moved to the Grind or Parking Lot- but as it likely will not be I will simply stay out of the way of the dancers.

Why don't you just ignore the thread then.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I don't have hatred for him, nor am I grave dancing. I don't see any good that came from his life, except maybe to serve as a warning to others who consider intolerance acceptable.

To Nephy's defense, she probably wasn't talking about you... nor me, and I really didn't like the man. Nothing good to say, so I've stayed quiet.

Why don't you just ignore the thread then.

I think that's what she said she would do, you know, stay out of the way of the dancers. I've been wondering why this wasn't in Daily Grind, or Parking LoT in the first place. It matters little to me, so I've done nothing about it.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by blueerica

To Nephy's defense, she probably wasn't talking about you... nor me, and I really didn't like the man. Nothing good to say, so I've stayed quiet.



I think that's what she said she would do, you know, stay out of the way of the dancers. I've been wondering why this wasn't in Daily Grind, or Parking LoT in the first place. It matters little to me, so I've done nothing about it.

Not that I should need defense but no, my comments were no more pointed than lets say....a soft fluffy tribble.

...and thanks, nonetheless.