The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Perhaps. But I find there to be too much venom and not enough sympathy from a community that is fighting persecution. Should he be exposed? I suppose. I just feel the focus is a little bit too much on demonizing hypocrites (who almost invariably will shoot themselves in the foot without help, thank you very much) and not enough on addressing the actual issue.

Plus, the public calls to out public figures aren't limited to politicians, who are in a position to be actively hypocritical and affect things. It extends to celebreties (Tom Cruise, anyone?). I find the vehement calls for people like Cruise to come out to be...unseemly.

All of this exposes a dichotomy in the gay rights message. "My sexuality is my business...but public figures' sexuality is my business too." Like I said, I see it to a point, but I think it's done in an agressive, political way that marginalizes homosexuality and lends support to those that would demonize the "gay agenda".

I agree when it comes to non-political public figures. If they want to live a miserable life hiding, so be it. But, IMO, it's a different matter entirely when my rights are at stake.

[Nephythys]

Marriage is not a right- it's a choice.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Marriage is not a right- it's a choice.

But allowing benefits of that choice to one group and not to another is discrimination.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But allowing benefits of that choice to one group and not to another is discrimination.

Yeah-though from the votes people are still not going for the idea of gay marriage. Even in CO the whole idea of domestic partners fell flat. I think mostly because of the little things hidden under the good idea.

...and for the record, you all know I'm conservative- but I don't give a whit about gay marriage. Doesn't bother me a bit- and my vote showed it. Get married- don't get married- whatever.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Yeah-though from the votes people are still not going for the idea of gay marriage.

And, left up to popular opinion in the 60's, anti-miscegnination laws would have stood.

I'd like to see marriage dropped from the realm of law all together, but as long as it's there, it's everyone or no one.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Marriage is not a right- it's a choice.

Of course in some cultures it's an arrangement

[Nephythys]

No argument from me- but I would not hold your breath.

I still don't get the issue- I really can not wrap my brain around why anyone CARES!

[Gn2Dlnd]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I still don't get the issue- I really can not wrap my brain around why anyone CARES!

I'm not sure I understand. You don't get why anyone cares if Gay people get married, or why Gay people would want to get married? If it's the latter, it has to do not only with equality, but with visitation rights in jails and hospitals, custodial rights with children, health benefit rights, banking arrangements, inheritance issues, and so on. I've had many friends find themselves in dire circumstances when a partner has died from AIDS, only to have the family of the deceased claim all property. Or to be denied visitation rights in the hospital because they're not blood relations. Many of us have resorted to lying to get into the hospital room of a partner. Marriage may come with a lot of drawbacks, but the alternative leaves many of us with no recourse when a partner is in trouble.

[Alex]

Oh and just for the record, Mr. Rangel's issue is that minorities compromise more than 30% of the military and he says:

Since minorities make up about 30% of the population in general I assume this wouldn't be a bad thing. I assume it is meant that 30% of the military is black.

Taking a quick look into it, what is interesting to me is that while blacks are wildly overrepresented it looks like (if Fort Bragg is a reasonable sampling) whites are not particularly underrepresnted. 58% of Fort Bragg is white which is about in line with the general population (about 60%). So it looks like while one minority is way over represented in the army other minorities are way under represented.

Interesting. I will have to remember to look into whether Bragg is representative.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

I'm not sure I understand. You don't get why anyone cares if Gay people get married, or why Gay people would want to get married? If it's the latter, it has to do not only with equality, but with visitation rights in jails and hospitals, custodial rights with children, health benefit rights, banking arrangements, inheritance issues, and so on. I've had many friends find themselves in dire circumstances when a partner has died from AIDS, only to have the family of the deceased claim all property. Or to be denied visitation rights in the hospital because they're not blood relations. Many of us have resorted to lying to get into the hospital room of a partner. Marriage may come with a lot of drawbacks, but the alternative leaves many of us with no recourse when a partner is in trouble.

I don't get why anyone cares if gay people get married- I just don't get it.

I heard an ad that compared gay marriages among straight marriages to counterfeit dollars among real money. The ad was stupid- gay people being married doesn't make a bit of difference to if I am married or not.

I just have not seen any reasonable argument against it-

I don't even but the idea that if you have gay marriage you will have to legalize bigamy or polygmy or other things-