The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 174

innerSpaceman · 11-13-2006, 09:24 AM

Well, being that hawk Republican McCain and hawk Independant-Democrat Lieberman were on Meet the Press this weekend insisting the only alternatives were a) leave completely, admitting defeat and allowing likely chaos (er, bigger chaos) or b) institute a massive build-up of troops and aim for victory. They each acknowledged they would push for plan b, but that the electorate seemed clear in desiring plan a.

While I'm not one for governing by popular opinion, I believe that ignoring the expressed popular opinion of voting - which is how the message is supposed to get through to government - is an abdication of responsibility to govern democratically (and, in this case, in the most vital area of governing).

I don't think officials should necessarily sacrifice their personal good judgment to the will of the people, and I respect McCain and Lieberman for sticking to their guns. But the people have clearly spoken, and it's quite right for politicians whose judgment does not conflict with the will of the people to govern according to the will of the people.

I know it won't happen this way, but the only thing better than our getting out of Iraq within four months would be getting out in three.

Strangler Lewis · 11-13-2006, 10:01 AM

I don't agree. I believe the knee jerk will of the people should generally be disregarded, just as I would hope my mechanic would disregard my will that my car should fly. Supermarket surveys generally show that most people would unknowingly repeal the Bill of Rights. Further, I don't think this election was a vote for chaos. I think it was an angry reaction to being lied to up and down the line.

€uroMeinke · 11-14-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

I don't think this election was a vote for chaos.

Speak for yourself

@

Not Afraid · 11-13-2006, 06:03 PM

Giuliani in '08?

Hmmmm, that's sort of a nice thought.

Strangler Lewis · 11-13-2006, 06:13 PM

Aw, hell. Let's repeal the two term limit and the prohibition against foreign born presidents. Let Bill run against Arnold. Have one of the debates be devoted solely to sex. Maybe two.

Nephythys · 11-13-2006, 06:08 PM

Damn sight better than McCain.

wendybeth · 11-13-2006, 06:13 PM

I thik he's probably one of the more viable candidates- he could probably attract a lot of Dems with his stance on some of the larger issues.

Motorboat Cruiser · 11-13-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Damn sight better than McCain.

It will be interesting to see how many other republicans see it that way, being that the guy is pro gun control, pro gay marriage, pro choice, and has admitted to infidelity.

Alex · 11-13-2006, 11:59 PM

At this point and for at least a couple more terms I don't see it mattering much who is actually president, just what the letter after their name is. If it is the wrong one they will be evil spawn to 49.9% of the population. The level of discourse is just too hate filled.

Personally, I'll never vote for McCain. He's a decent enough guy but he doesn't strike me as sincere, just playing "straight talking" as a political gambit. He'll go where he needs to in order win. Plus, he is just too old. He'd be 72 when he took office, two years older than Reagan, who was laughed at for being too old. One year younger than Bob Dole who faced serious questions about his age in '96.

Guiliani is intresting (and more honestly a "straight talker," in my opinion) but I doubt he could get through primary which is always the problem on both sides killing the more appealing candidates on either side. That said, Guiliani would be a big lightning rod for the viotriol if he's elected and he has shown problems cowing his temper.

How about Guiliani/Rice against Clinton/Obama in '08? (I wonder if all the people who condemned the Bush "dynasty" as a reason not to vote for him will have a similar problem with a Clinton "dynasty."

Moonliner · 11-14-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

How about Guiliani/Rice against Clinton/Obama in '08?

What's wrong with a president that gets pissed off from time to time? It's a job that needs an propensity to kick a little ass now and then and if Guiliani's the only one standing between Hillary and the presidency he could also be a womanizing, coke snorting, gay bashing, commie loving, alzheimer's patient and still get my vote.

11-13-2006, 09:24 AM	#1
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Well, being that hawk Republican McCain and hawk Independant-Democrat Lieberman were on Meet the Press this weekend insisting the only alternatives were a) leave completely, admitting defeat and allowing likely chaos (er, bigger chaos) or b) institute a massive build-up of troops and aim for victory. They each acknowledged they would push for plan b, but that the electorate seemed clear in desiring plan a. While I'm not one for governing by popular opinion, I believe that ignoring the expressed popular opinion of voting - which is how the message is supposed to get through to government - is an abdication of responsibility to govern democratically (and, in this case, in the most vital area of governing). I don't think officials should necessarily sacrifice their personal good judgment to the will of the people, and I respect McCain and Lieberman for sticking to their guns. But the people have clearly spoken, and it's quite right for politicians whose judgment does not conflict with the will of the people to govern according to the will of the people. I know it won't happen this way, but the only thing better than our getting out of Iraq within four months would be getting out in three.
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11-13-2006, 10:01 AM	#2
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	I don't agree. I believe the knee jerk will of the people should generally be disregarded, just as I would hope my mechanic would disregard my will that my car should fly. Supermarket surveys generally show that most people would unknowingly repeal the Bill of Rights. Further, I don't think this election was a vote for chaos. I think it was an angry reaction to being lied to up and down the line. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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11-13-2006, 06:03 PM	#4
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	Giuliani in '08? Hmmmm, that's sort of a nice thought.
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11-13-2006, 06:13 PM	#5
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	Aw, hell. Let's repeal the two term limit and the prohibition against foreign born presidents. Let Bill run against Arnold. Have one of the debates be devoted solely to sex. Maybe two. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
	Submit to Quotes

11-13-2006, 06:08 PM	#6
Nephythys Yeah, that's about it- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a state of constant crap to get done Posts: 2,688	Damn sight better than McCain.
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11-13-2006, 06:13 PM	#7
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I thik he's probably one of the more viable candidates- he could probably attract a lot of Dems with his stance on some of the larger issues. __________________
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11-13-2006, 11:59 PM	#9
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	At this point and for at least a couple more terms I don't see it mattering much who is actually president, just what the letter after their name is. If it is the wrong one they will be evil spawn to 49.9% of the population. The level of discourse is just too hate filled. Personally, I'll never vote for McCain. He's a decent enough guy but he doesn't strike me as sincere, just playing "straight talking" as a political gambit. He'll go where he needs to in order win. Plus, he is just too old. He'd be 72 when he took office, two years older than Reagan, who was laughed at for being too old. One year younger than Bob Dole who faced serious questions about his age in '96. Guiliani is intresting (and more honestly a "straight talker," in my opinion) but I doubt he could get through primary which is always the problem on both sides killing the more appealing candidates on either side. That said, Guiliani would be a big lightning rod for the viotriol if he's elected and he has shown problems cowing his temper. How about Guiliani/Rice against Clinton/Obama in '08? (I wonder if all the people who condemned the Bush "dynasty" as a reason not to vote for him will have a similar problem with a Clinton "dynasty."
	Submit to Quotes