The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[lizziebith]

I don't feel anything different now that he's dead. Wasn't I supposed to feel different?

[SacTown Chronic]

^No orgasms?

[SacTown Chronic]

I mean, uh, don't you feel safer?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Ah, but that would amount to mental torture. So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't agree that being removed from society because you have taken the lives of others is mental torture.

And while I'm not exactly shedding tears here, I can't say I feel good either. I don't see that anything was accomplished other than vengeance, and while that might feel good, I suspect the repercussions are going to sour that good feeling pretty quickly. Then we can catch those people and kill them and then others will kill more of ours and the cycle continues ad nausium. Meanwhile, the innocent people in the middle of this mess, keep dying every day. Woo-hoo.

We're going to get to the point eventually to where we've killed more innocent Iraqi's than Saddam. And yet, it is justified because we are trying to help them. Yeah, tell that to the victims families.

[Gemini Cricket]

Well said, MBC.

[Nephythys]

WE? Who is WE MBC?

While I admit that obviously we have had some crimes committed by our military- WE are not over there randomly and flagrantly killing innocent people.

Actually- I would say based on any sources more people are killed by terrorists and insurgents and this in-fighting among the factions there than any WE have killed.

Or maybe you missed that? Is it just easier to blame us?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

WE? Who is WE MBC?

While I admit that obviously we have had some crimes committed by our military- WE are not over there randomly and flagrantly killing innocent people.

Actually- I would say based on any sources more people are killed by terrorists and insurgents and this in-fighting among the factions there than any WE have killed.

Or maybe you missed that? Is it just easier to blame us?

You introduced the words "randomly and flagrantly", not I. But don't fool yourself into thinking that tactics such as "Shock and Awe" only killed the bad people. No, it indiscriminately killed anyone who happened to be in the area. How many? We'll probably never know but I'll bet that number is larger than you imagine. Do you think that their families are ok with that because it was for a good cause? Perhaps that is why we have failed to be welcomed with open arms and flowers at our feet. And, we removed the country's infrastructure in the process. Something that we have yet to rebuild.

And by the way, how many terrorists and insurgents were blowing up Iraqis before we got there? Perhaps, if we really cared about the Iraqis, we would have taken measures from the get-go to ensure that an insurgency of this magnitude didn't materialize in the aftermath. Instead, our leaders were so convinced that this was going to be over in a few weeks that they never considered it might not go that way. And here were are.

So yes, there is plenty of blame to go around.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

You introduced the words "randomly and flagrantly", not I. But don't fool yourself into thinking that tactics such as "Shock and Awe" only killed the bad people. No, it indiscriminately killed anyone who happened to be in the area. How many? We'll probably never know but I'll bet that number is larger than you imagine. Do you think that their families are ok with that because it was for a good cause? Perhaps that is why we have failed to be welcomed with open arms and flowers at our feet. And, we removed the country's infrastructure in the process. Something that we have yet to rebuild.

I'm not fooled into thinking attacks only killed "bad people"- are you fooled into thinking WE (as in the US) are the ones entirely responsible for the deaths of innocents there now?

Do you ever bother to look past what is fed you by the media that thrives on BLOOD and DEATH and seen any of the good things? The positive things?

The people in the military who keep going back- voluntarily- because they believe in what thay are doing?
The schools, hospitals and other things being rebuilt?
The progress?

No- all ignored.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I'm not fooled into thinking attacks only killed "bad people"- are you fooled into thinking WE (as in the US) are the ones entirely responsible for the deaths of innocents there now?

I think it's been pretty well documented that our government had little to no concept of the shape of the conflict they would be sparking off. They were completely unprepared for the level of sectarian violence (despite decades, if not centuries, of precedent that some bare minimum amount of research would have pointed to). They just started dropping bombs and expected things to just kinda settle out for the best. Are "we" "responsible" for the violence there now? No, the people committing it are. Were "we" "irresponsible" for not anticipating the chaos that was inevitable and failing to conduct the operation in a way to minimize it in the aftermath? I'd be hard pressed to say no.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I'm not fooled into thinking attacks only killed "bad people"- are you fooled into thinking WE (as in the US) are the ones entirely responsible for the deaths of innocents there now?

Again, you introduced the word "entirely", which was not part of my argument.

Do you ever bother to look past what is fed you by the media that thrives on BLOOD and DEATH and seen any of the good things? The positive things?

Where, may I ask, are you getting your information from about all of the positive that is occurring?

The people in the military who keep going back- voluntarily- because they believe in what thay are doing?

You mean, like the ones that are having their tours extended indefinitely?

The schools, hospitals an other things being rebuilt?
The progress?

Violence is escalating there every day. You might call that progress, I cannot. Halliburton is sure making a killing however.