The polarization of "Crash"

[Gemini Cricket]

To say that if someone didn't like this film it's because they have never experienced racism is preposterous. One can make a distinction between how a film is made and its content. Also, if you read the post again, I never said it only happens covertly. I said that a lot of it is.

I'm not answering your above questions.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

First and foremost, the film felt like it was written and directed by two people who have never experienced racism firsthand nor seem to know what it actually feels like to be on the receiving end of it. ... My question to these filmmakers is 'What do you know about racism?'

The deal with racist people is that most of their racist tendencies are never overtly displayed to the people they are targeting. It happens inconspicuously. ... Racism is a problem because a lot of it is covert.

It just seemed to me that you were implying a familiarity with racism was important to creating a film about racism, and one of the reasons you disliked the movie is that you believed the filmmakers misunderstood the nature of racism in having their 12 characters display it so obviously.

If I read you right, you weren't buying it because it didn't seem "real" to you. Well, it seems real to plenty of people living in L.A. To think that you couldn't find a dozen people who are over-the-top racists in this town is laughable. Certainly a story involving near-impossible coincidences in plot as its structure can be allowed the coincidence of involving overtly racist characters to be involved in that plot.

I'm not the one who claimed you needed a familiarity with racism to make or appreciate this film. I'm sorry if you were offended that I found your own experience somewhat limited if you think it has to be covert to smack of reality. Try being black or Korean in L.A. and then tell me how covert the racism is in this town.


BTW, the anachronistic term "China Man" was speficially chosen by the filmmakers to be the most insulting term applicable to a Korean. Yeah, no one really says it anymore. It was intended to be jolting and noticeable. A story where 12 characters are connected by vehicle incidents in a series of unlikely coincidences is not going for reality in every aspect anyways.


* * * * *

Ooooh, and look how polarizing even a thread about 'Crash' is!!! Gemini Cricket and I are having our worst message board fight since ... well, since our discussion of 'Rent.'

(Maybe we can strike a bin Ladan truce over our mutual love for Brokeback Mountain.)

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

It just seemed to me that you were implying a familiarity with racism was important to creating a film about racism, and one of the reasons you disliked the movie is that you believed the filmmakers misunderstood the nature of racism in having their 12 characters display it so obviously.

You're telling me that I haven't truly experienced racism because I'm Hawaiian. Okay, with that logic... the director and writer of this film are white.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

If I read you right, you weren't buying it because it didn't seem "real" to you. Well, it seems real to plenty of people living in L.A.

I find that to be a cop out. I've lived in LA for 8 years. I've seen it.

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job (not to mention that every formal complaint of an LA officer goes in their file). If a CSI investigator (or whatever she was) spouted overtly racists remarks to someone, she would lose her job. If a DA's wife was deemed as a racist (and witnessed as one by several people in her house), the press would have a field day bringing that DA down. That's how it works now and these people in their jobs know that. They would not say these things outloud to their target for fear of repercussions.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Certainly a story involving near-impossible coincidences in plot as its structure can be allowed the coincidence of involving overtly racist characters to be involved in that plot.

Not if your point is to mirror every day life. I'm not saying all racists are covert. But what are the odds that all 12 of these people are?

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Try being black or Korean in L.A. and then tell me how covert the racism is in this town.

So the filmmakers need not be experienced in being on the receiving end of racism in order to be credible, but I do?

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

(Maybe we can strike a bin Ladan truce over our mutual love for Brokeback Mountain.)

Yeah, but you were bi-sexual and now you're not. What do I care about your opinion on two rumpus rangers who were born gay.

(Okay, that last one was a joke.)

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me.

I have Samoan in-laws that have certainly experienced racism. I think anything that varies from the norm is sometimes discriminated against.

I haven't seen Crash, but I will now.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Um, Hawaiian discrimination? If it's true ... and I cannot doubt your word ... that's a new one on me.

I have Samoan in-laws that have certainly experienced racism. I think anything that varies from the norm is sometimes discriminated against.

I haven't seen Crash, but I will now.

[Gemini Cricket]

I don't know if this thread is polarized about racism. It's polarized on whether the film was made well or not. I say not.

(Btw- I'm seeing double posts... Am I drunk?) ???

[Ponine]

OKay, I have to pull this out and question it...

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job (not to mention that every formal complaint of an LA officer goes in their file).

But thats the kicker isnt it? She didnt press charges, she didn't file a complaint.
She chose to live with it, and attempt to deal.
Who knows why. Becuase it could ruin her husbands career?
Or did I miss that she filed a complaint?

I know that I wouldnt have had the nerve to tell ANYONE if that had been me. It wouldnt have been worth it to re-live it just to file a complaint.

GC?

[Alex]

Of course Hawaiian discrimination. Most people couldn't tell a Hawaiian from a Samoan from a Tongan (and most could tell general Polynesian traits from general Asian traits).

Many haoles suffer under the same misconceptions of Hawaiian laziness as exist for Mexicans and other tropical populations.


As for China Man being the worst thing you can call a Korean, I don't doubt they'd find it insulting, but in my experience calling them Japanese is worse (and conversely, calling a Japanese person anything other than Japanese will be considered quite insulting).

I haven't seen Crash and probably won't for a couple years (it's in my 400-movie-long Netflix queue) since I have no particular compulsion to move it up in the queue. From what I've read and what little I've seen it just doesn't interest me.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ponine

GC?

Me? Oh, I'd say something. But no one wants to hear me brag.
'Me and Matt?' I'd say. 'We're like that.' Then I'd cross my fingers.
Ha ha. Joking! That was a joke. No flames!


Seriously though, I'd report him. My husband would survive.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

The portrayals were not realistic. If an LA cop fingerbanged someone while frisking them, they would lose their job...If a CSI investigator (or whatever she was) spouted overtly racists remarks to someone, she would lose her job. If a DA's wife was deemed as a racist (and witnessed as one by several people in her house), the press would have a field day bringing that DA down.

We are living on different planets.

Cops in particular, get away (quite literally) with murder, and every crime in between that and pencil theft.

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I'm not saying all racists are covert. But what are the odds that all 12 of these people are?

About the same as all 12 of these people being interconnected by automobile incidents. Either you accept that coincidence is the essence of the story or you don't. But since it IS, the presence of coincidence is simply not a legitimate criticism (any more than my criticism of King Kong is that I would have found a giant hamster more realistic).

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

So the filmmakers need not be experienced in being on the receiving end of racism in order to be credible, but I do?

No, you miss my point - which is that you shouldn't hold the filmmakers to different level of racism-familiarity than you have yourself. I was pointing out that your own familiarity seems limited in respects, so why can't the filmmakers' be limited in others?




Oh, and since Jake and Ennis are both as bisexual as I am, I am quite authoritative on BBM.