Could you forgive someone who shot you?

[Nephythys]

You don't think she can choose to do this without being coached? Huh-ok......

Forgiveness is for the person offering it- to free them of the burden of anger and hate that not forgiving can bring.

Forgive me but I think some people here might lack understanding of the fundamental meaning behind someone offering forgiveness- it has nothing to do with this man not facing consequences.

But the discussion requires theology- and in this mixed company the conversation would be......tiring.

[Alex]

I only suspect she is mimicing (though earnestly, I'm sure) or coached because at her age she can't really understand what exactly she is forgiving.

But I have no problem with the first of the definitions given above, though in that definition I don't so much think she is forgiving as just that she is young and emotionally resilient. We'll have to wait until she is 15 and really wants to be a cheerleader with the other popular girls to see if she is cheerleading.

The great thing about forgiveness that is purely internal is that it is non-binding and easily revoked.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

But the discussion requires theology- and in this mixed company the conversation would be......tiring.

In what way is our company "mixed?" Christian and not? Republican and not? Those that agree with you and not? We have many discussions here that require theology. I wouldn't call any of them tiring. Interesting would be the word of my choice.

(and sorry for serial posting.)

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

In what way is our company "mixed?" Christian and not? Republican and not? Those that agree with you and not? We have many discussions here that require theology. I wouldn't call any of them tiring. Interesting would be the word of my choice.

(and sorry for serial posting.)

Mixed as in varied views on faiths...don't take it as any sort of slight. I'm exhausted. I'm working on my securities license, I'm burning the candle at both ends and the middle and the thought- to me- of having a conversation on forgiveness from the theological view sounds tiring. It was my post, my view, my opinion. There is no need to take it any other way- breathing is tiring today. Thinking deeply enough to take part adequately is downright exhausting.

[Nephythys]

You teach a kid at that age to forgive- you teach them to let go of the hate and anger that could so easily build- and you are rasing a kid with the ability to let things go. That's perfect to do at her age- you call it "coaching" I call it raising a child to do the right thing.

[Alex]

I didn't say it was a bad thing, just that I don't think she really understand what she is saying. Maybe later she'll understand and still stand by what she said. Or she won't.

It's like teaching a kid to say "please" and "thank you." They'll be coached (or raised) to say it at the appropriate times long before they really mean it.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I didn't say it was a bad thing, just that I don't think she really understand what she is saying. Maybe later she'll understand and still stand by what she said. Or she won't.

It's like teaching a kid to say "please" and "thank you." They'll be coached (or raised) to say it at the appropriate times long before they really mean it.

I agree with this to a point. I small children can feel all these things, just to a lesser extent. We've chosen not to prompt for things like please and thank you, and just to model it instead. Humans being the social beings they are, will copy behaviors that make fitting into society easier. So when Indi says "thank you" when I hand him a carrot, no doubt it's just because he's heard me say thank you whenever he hands me something. But when we give him something he really loves and he gives us a big hug and says, "MMM. I love you!" I think that he really does feel gratitude.

Likewise, he may say sorry when he's made a mistake because he hears us say it, but when he breaks a toy and apologizes to it, it's clear that he really does feel regret. I accidentally threw a small favorite toy of his away last week. He was upset, of course, but when I apologized, he looked at me for a minute then said, "It's ok" and went to play. It would seem to me like he forgave me.

Sorry for so many anecdotes, they're all I really have to go by in this instance. I think that the girl in question can only forgive what she understands. So at this point, she can forgive him for the fact that she has to be in a wheelchair and can't run and play. That's probably the extent of her understanding.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You teach a kid at that age to forgive- you teach them to let go of the hate and anger that could so easily build- and you are rasing a kid with the ability to let things go. That's perfect to do at her age- you call it "coaching" I call it raising a child to do the right thing.

But you can't really ever teach someone to let go of anger. You can only help them in a small way. The girls anger is her own. She will probably feel it at least from time to time for the rest of her life. To try to "teach" someone to let go is only teaching them to suppress their emotions. She can forgive what she understands, but she'll have to forgive again each time she encounters another phase of life that she can't participate in.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

But you can't really ever teach someone to let go of anger. You can only help them in a small way. The girls anger is her own. She will probably feel it at least from time to time for the rest of her life.

This is an excellent point.

I'm going to tell a story, names omitted, because I think it relates.

Someone very dear to me was a victim of incest between the ages of three and eight. I have watched her walk a path of forgiveness for many years, but this does not mean that she has completely let go of her feelings. She was still kind to her perpetrator in his final hours. But I've also seen her occasional bursts of rage (sometimes misdirected at those around her) and her long-term anger applied to self-loathing in the form of slow suicide in one way or another. No matter how many times she chooses to forgive, she's still haunted by what happened.

I absolutely believe that the little girl-- and the woman I know-- can forgive. But it's going to have to happen every day for the rest of their lives. And some days, they may not. Such is the process of forgiveness.

In a spiritual sense, I liken it to the sort of thing I've seen done by certain Christian sects, where they make people stand up in front of everyone and ask them if they "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior?" That's a decision man is not capable of making just once. That's an every day decision.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I absolutely believe that the little girl-- and the woman I know-- can forgive. But it's going to have to happen every day for the rest of their lives. And some days, they may not. Such is the process of forgiveness.