The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I would call this nonsense. The lack of any requirement that you actually live a life of faith or dedication to call yourself a Christian (or most other religions) makes it all the easier to not be an atheist.

I disagree, Alex.

While I like the quote, I think the word "athiest" may not be the best choice.

However, I agree with the sentiment of the quote wholeheartedly.

If someone claims to be a Christian and yet does not attempt to live according to the tenets of Christianity, why would someone then consider Christianity to be something of interest at all to them? Why would there be a need or desire to participate in something with no practical application or meaning?

I would suggest that when Jimmy Swaggart had his fall, not many people were saying "Cool! I want to be a Christian because that means I can have hookers, too!". Rather, I would figure the vast majority of those who cared to have thoughts about it were thinking "There goes another hypocrite Christian leader". No one likes hypocrisy. To claim to have a faith in the Christian God and yet make no attempt to live up to what the teachings of the faith entail (not talking about making mistakes, as no one is perfect) is the ultimate turn off.

[Alex]

If you want to chang the word atheist to something else then we can have a different discussion. But I have never met an atheist who says "you know, I don't believe in god because religion just isn't rigorous enough these days, but boy, back in the 1400s I'd have been all over that like an Inquisitor on a witch."

Considering that the vast majority of "Christians" I know seem to think that Christianity means nothing more than going to church on Easter I will stand by my claim that more people claim Christianity because it is too easy to do than reject it because it is too easy to do.

[innerSpaceman]

I don't see what the Hannah quote has to do with participating in a religion being easy or difficult. It's rather a matter of following its tenets in your actual life or not.

Is it inherently more difficult to behave morally than immorally? I don't think so. Perhaps it is for those who really want to be bad, but I don't see it being any kind of task for those who are truly inclined to be good.

Perhaps I'm just nitpicking with Alex's choice of words. Actually, I think Alex himself was a little stuck on the word "athiest," when the sentiment of the quote more likely was appropos of the term "agnostic." But people often say one when they mean the other, and so I'm not one to quibble between the two. Perhaps I'm taking a quibbling stand with "easy," but I found it odd to assert that living by Jesus' precepts was difficult ... as if our natural state as humans is to be hateful, cruel and greedy.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I found it odd to assert that living by Jesus' precepts was difficult ... as if our natural state as humans is to be hateful, cruel and greedy.

I actually think it is. As a parent, the hardest thing to do with my children - and I have heard this from other parents as well - is to teach then to NOT be a me first selfish person who is interested in their own well being alone.

Hateful and cruel? Not those. But self serving above all else? Certainly. And a self serving attitude becomes one that can be cruel and hateful to acheive ones ends.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Actually, I think Alex himself was a little stuck on the word "athiest," when the sentiment of the quote more likely was appropos of the term "agnostic." But people often say one when they mean the other, and so I'm not one to quibble between the two.

To me, saying atheist when you mean agnostic (or in this situation the guy probably means something even less godless than agnostic implies) is about the same as saying tomato when you mean potato. They sound similar but they're really not.

So yes, I may be a bit stuck on the word choice.

[wendybeth]

Whether or not it's difficult to be a good person depends on so many variables, but by and large I think it is hard to consciously follow a moral and ethically positive path. Children are selfish because they are taught to be so, and later we (hopefully) unteach them. (By taught, I mean they are totally taken care of and looked over and waited on, etc). As they mature, they learn to pay it forward. (Usually). The adults have to lead by example, something we all fail at to some degree, but we should try as best we can. Religion can provide direction, but I think it's so important to use the brain that God gave you as well. To me, it seems life would be easier for an atheist. I think most people are innately good, but for those who believe you have to adhere to a certain system of rules and structure or you fall into the sinful category, it's a struggle. Then you have the whole 'leap of faith' thing, which can be very difficult to reconcile in that we humans tend to demand tangible proof before believing in things.

I get irritated by the Jimmy Swaggerts and pervy priests, but they do not affect my belief system in any way. There have always been hypocrites and criminals, and no religion (or non-religion) is immune from the human factor.

[€uroMeinke]

I'm just wondering if there's a Demand-side Mohammed comic?

[wendybeth]

I'm sure there is, but everyone is too afraid to print it.

[Alex]

What's funny about that is if you took the cartoon posted above and changed nothing in it graphically but in the talk bubbles replaced the word Jesus with Mohammed it would magically become offensive rather than just (arguably) stupid.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I actually think it is. As a parent, the hardest thing to do with my children - and I have heard this from other parents as well - is to teach then to NOT be a me first selfish person who is interested in their own well being alone.

Hateful and cruel? Not those. But self serving above all else? Certainly. And a self serving attitude becomes one that can be cruel and hateful to acheive ones ends.

I disagree. I don't even think that the self serving attitude needs to be taught out of children. I think Wendy is right, they are selfish because when they are small and their wants and needs are the same, their needs are (hopefully) met right away. It's an adjustment phase as they get older and have to learn to function as a member of the family, but they will learn it just by watching those around them put others first. Jesus taught by example, did he not?

I'm not addressing this to you, Scaeagles, but what puts me off the most about Christianity (and I'm a Christian) is the parents. Or I should say a lot of the parents that I've encountered. There seems to be a mindset that kids are bad and if they aren't forced to do the right thing they never will. That outlook is what gives sadistic nuts like Ezzo and the Pearls* followers.

I don't think that God created bad people. It only makes sense in terms of Christianity to assume that people are inherently good and giving if we are made in His image.


*Ezzo and the Pearls both write really sick child rearing books advocating child abuse. Several deaths have occured because of these books.