Get It Off Your (Dead Man's) Chest: Pirates Movie Reviews - Page 2

cstephens · 07-08-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

And the ending. Barbossa. Really?! Didn't he die at the end? Though I suppose they have to show that they can bring people back from the dead so they can bring Sparrow back.

But he's not dead, remember? At the end of POTC, the monkey steals one of the coins again, presumably re-triggering the curse. That's confirmed in this film since Bootstrap is "alive", and remember when Jack shoots the monkey and shows the haitian lady that he's giving her an undead monkey? So we know that Jack isn't going to die anyway. I guess it's just the two pirates (the ones who dressed up in the dresses on the first one) who still think they're mortal now.

scaeagles · 07-08-2006, 11:28 AM

I haven't seen it, so I'm talking in theory here and mostly talking about cstephens' post.

Once the curse was reversed at the end of the first (Dr. Seuss sounding, that is), why would the others be subjected to it again when only the monkey had taken gold out after the reversal of the curse? Seems odd, as that would imply that once you've repaid the debt, should someone else incur that debt, you are again beholden to said curse.

Alex · 07-08-2006, 11:28 AM

No, the monkey is still alive because it had a coin. Nobody else was still cursed. Otherwise Jack Sparrow and the two comedic-relief pirates (and why a movie that is one big bit of comedic-relief needs comedic-relief characters I don't know) would turn to skeletons every night. Which they don't. When the monkey first appears at the beginning of the movie it is in undead form but Jack, standing right next to it, is not.

Bootstrap Bill is still alive because he took the deal to work on Davy Jones's crew while the curse was still in effect (and he was sitting at the bottom of the ocean tied to a cannon) and is now under the protection of that spell.

innerSpaceman · 07-08-2006, 11:34 AM

I have to disagree with Alex about the story messiness of the first film vs. this one.

The thing I've come to admire about the original (and, as CP will endlessly remind me, I wasn't a fan after my first viewing) is its tight story contstruction ... especially in the first two acts. The first third is almost a textbook case of character introduction, action introduction, and plot intorduction. The second act follows through nicely, and the third act ties things up a little haphazardly, but with conciseness.

Fun characterizations and zifty zombie effects cannot carry me for multiple viewings. This is why I will not be seeing Dead Man's Chest over and over.

As a sequel, it was even worse than I could have imagined. It's got all the tired repetiveness of character and weaksauce plot of most sequels, but - as ubergeek pointed out - the whole thing was merely a thinly-disguised set-up for a third movie. For god's sake, if they had to stretch it out to two movies, why was one of them 2-1/2 hours long!!

But, I liked Bootstrap Bill and I sorta dug some of the squid crew of the Flying Dutchman. Bootstrap's scenes with Will Turner were a little bit of the character expansion that good sequels provide. I think it's poor sequels that stoop, as this one did, to having the main characters squabble and backstab each other as a pathetically obvious device for a kiss-and-make-up denoument in a later film.

And I don't know what it is about Davy Jones that didn't do it for me. He's interesting looking, the performance was bittersweet and moving. But it wasn't menacing, imo. Maybe it's difficult to strike a balance between scenery-chewing pirate and legitimately dangerous villain ... but it's been done before in this very same series and -- (even though the drowned cat's out of the bag, I'll use spoiler tags) --

Spoiler:

The salutes to the ride were fewer this time, but still enjoyable. Tortuga seems to be the stand-in for the ride's sacked village, and the movie's dunking well scene this time out was in fine keeping with that set-up. The gag about the prisoners whistling for the dog was cute. And the actual dog's ultimate fate was interesting, if you consider reversing the spelling.

I shouted out "throw me a roll" during the dead-on, firefly-filled bayou swamp scene, but I didn't get a laugh.

BarTopDancer · 07-08-2006, 11:41 AM

ISM - I would have laughed.

Ok, so can someone explain to me why Jack did not want the heart to be stabbed? I totally missed that part. Did he want to control the sea? It seemed to be some other reason.

innerSpaceman · 07-08-2006, 11:52 AM

He needs the heart to bargain with Davy Jones for release from their bargain. It wasn't made clear what destroying the heart would do ....perhaps if Davy Jones "dies," Sparrow would still have to serve under Hammerhead Man or ShrimpFace or some other promoted member of the Crustaceon Crew.

I don't blame you for being confused. If the first film was perplexing about the precise nature of the coin curse, this one is absolutely mindboggling in its compexo-absurdity.

cstephens · 07-08-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Bootstrap Bill is still alive because he took the deal to work on Davy Jones's crew while the curse was still in effect (and he was sitting at the bottom of the ocean tied to a cannon) and is now under the protection of that spell.

OK, I didn't get that at all.

But then, that still doesn't explain why Barbossa is still alive. Maybe they're saving that explanation for 3? And they're gonna have to explain how they're bringing Jack back then.

I remember speculation after the first one about whether the monkey stealing the coin would re-trigger the curse, and yeah, it seemed unfair that if one of them stole it again, they would all be cursed again, but then there was the whole question of Barbossa.

BarTopDancer · 07-08-2006, 11:57 AM

Thanks Steve.

There should have been more shiny and less confusing stuff.

BarTopDancer · 07-08-2006, 11:58 AM

See I fully expected Jack to stab the Krakken through the roof of it's mouth to kill it (as has been done in other movies), and I expected him to come down the stairs.

innerSpaceman · 07-08-2006, 11:59 AM

Pfft, I'm still confused about why Barbossa is (was?) dead in the first place.

When he was shot by Jack, Turner's blood had been spilled on the treasure, but the last coin had still not been returned to the chest. Aren't both things necessary for the curse to have been broken?

This simply does not bode well for me understanding what the frell is going on in the 2-part sequel pair.

07-08-2006, 11:28 AM	#12
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I haven't seen it, so I'm talking in theory here and mostly talking about cstephens' post. Once the curse was reversed at the end of the first (Dr. Seuss sounding, that is), why would the others be subjected to it again when only the monkey had taken gold out after the reversal of the curse? Seems odd, as that would imply that once you've repaid the debt, should someone else incur that debt, you are again beholden to said curse.
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07-08-2006, 11:28 AM	#13
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	No, the monkey is still alive because it had a coin. Nobody else was still cursed. Otherwise Jack Sparrow and the two comedic-relief pirates (and why a movie that is one big bit of comedic-relief needs comedic-relief characters I don't know) would turn to skeletons every night. Which they don't. When the monkey first appears at the beginning of the movie it is in undead form but Jack, standing right next to it, is not. Bootstrap Bill is still alive because he took the deal to work on Davy Jones's crew while the curse was still in effect (and he was sitting at the bottom of the ocean tied to a cannon) and is now under the protection of that spell.
	Submit to Quotes

07-08-2006, 11:34 AM	#14
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I have to disagree with Alex about the story messiness of the first film vs. this one. The thing I've come to admire about the original (and, as CP will endlessly remind me, I wasn't a fan after my first viewing) is its tight story contstruction ... especially in the first two acts. The first third is almost a textbook case of character introduction, action introduction, and plot intorduction. The second act follows through nicely, and the third act ties things up a little haphazardly, but with conciseness. Fun characterizations and zifty zombie effects cannot carry me for multiple viewings. This is why I will not be seeing Dead Man's Chest over and over. As a sequel, it was even worse than I could have imagined. It's got all the tired repetiveness of character and weaksauce plot of most sequels, but - as ubergeek pointed out - the whole thing was merely a thinly-disguised set-up for a third movie. For god's sake, if they had to stretch it out to two movies, why was one of them 2-1/2 hours long!! But, I liked Bootstrap Bill and I sorta dug some of the squid crew of the Flying Dutchman. Bootstrap's scenes with Will Turner were a little bit of the character expansion that good sequels provide. I think it's poor sequels that stoop, as this one did, to having the main characters squabble and backstab each other as a pathetically obvious device for a kiss-and-make-up denoument in a later film. And I don't know what it is about Davy Jones that didn't do it for me. He's interesting looking, the performance was bittersweet and moving. But it wasn't menacing, imo. Maybe it's difficult to strike a balance between scenery-chewing pirate and legitimately dangerous villain ... but it's been done before in this very same series and -- (even though the drowned cat's out of the bag, I'll use spoiler tags) -- Spoiler: -- the one thing that might be redeeming about the third movie is that Geoffrey Rush is back as Captain Barbossa The salutes to the ride were fewer this time, but still enjoyable. Tortuga seems to be the stand-in for the ride's sacked village, and the movie's dunking well scene this time out was in fine keeping with that set-up. The gag about the prisoners whistling for the dog was cute. And the actual dog's ultimate fate was interesting, if you consider reversing the spelling. I shouted out "throw me a roll" during the dead-on, firefly-filled bayou swamp scene, but I didn't get a laugh. Last edited by innerSpaceman : 07-08-2006 at 11:40 AM.
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07-08-2006, 11:41 AM	#15
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	ISM - I would have laughed. Ok, so can someone explain to me why Jack did not want the heart to be stabbed? I totally missed that part. Did he want to control the sea? It seemed to be some other reason. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
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07-08-2006, 11:52 AM	#16
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	He needs the heart to bargain with Davy Jones for release from their bargain. It wasn't made clear what destroying the heart would do ....perhaps if Davy Jones "dies," Sparrow would still have to serve under Hammerhead Man or ShrimpFace or some other promoted member of the Crustaceon Crew. I don't blame you for being confused. If the first film was perplexing about the precise nature of the coin curse, this one is absolutely mindboggling in its compexo-absurdity.
	Submit to Quotes

07-08-2006, 11:57 AM	#18
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	Thanks Steve. There should have been more shiny and less confusing stuff. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
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07-08-2006, 11:58 AM	#19
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	See I fully expected Jack to stab the Krakken through the roof of it's mouth to kill it (as has been done in other movies), and I expected him to come down the stairs. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
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07-08-2006, 11:59 AM	#20
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Pfft, I'm still confused about why Barbossa is (was?) dead in the first place. When he was shot by Jack, Turner's blood had been spilled on the treasure, but the last coin had still not been returned to the chest. Aren't both things necessary for the curse to have been broken? This simply does not bode well for me understanding what the frell is going on in the 2-part sequel pair.
	Submit to Quotes